View Poll Results: Legalize hard drugs?

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Thread: Legalize Hard Drugs?

  1. #91
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    Re: Legalize Hard Drugs?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Not really. In this case, the black market would be far less something eliminated. oxycodone and morphine are legal, though controlled, and the black market with them is still significant. Making these substances legal and free for use similar to alcohol is irresponsible and dangerous, and making them prescription released offers no benefits to current drugs on the market, and does not eliminate black market selling.
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    And even if the black market were eliminated, the negatives would still outweigh this positive.
    I was thinking differently but perhaps you are right. I can see your argument more with heroin and meth than coke, based on their addictiveness.

    I was thinking they would be available as alcohol and weed, once that is legalized, and not like prescription drugs which does result in a black market. I am taking the libertarian argument here, as long as you take responsibility for the consequences, you should be free to use.

    I was thinking they are more harmful being illegal than they would be being legal. I am assuming that their rates of use would not go up appreciably.

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    Re: Legalize Hard Drugs?

    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenAsparagus View Post
    And subtropical areas as well as other countries that compete.
    Again what would stop those countries or even companies here from outsourcing to the cartels.


    Cartels aren't street gangs
    I think most people know that. They are something much worse.


    What would the law enforcement go after? The stuff is legal. The government wouldn't run it.
    Cartels do not just sell drugs, they are not the illegal drug version of Anheuser-Busch.

    Considering the fact Mexico is a dirt poor 3rd world country replacements are probably not that expensive.
    Do you think these thugs the cartels hire are going to be millionaires?


    Call me crazy, but I think that when you're taking on a nations sizable military, you're using a good amount of resources.
    The vast majority of times stolen and illegal goods are much cheaper than their legal counterparts. Here in the US a preban machine can get expensive due to availability, however those bans do not exist to criminals organizations and in certain countries.


    Of course not, but it is their most significant source of revenue.
    And it will continue to be their significant source of income. Is the government going to grow the stuff and hand it out for free or for a dirt cheap price?

    THEY WOULD HAVE NO MONEY TO GO AGAINST THEM WITH
    Yes they would.Unless the federal government is growing and making the stuff themselves and handing it out for free or for a dirt cheap price the cartels are still going to make lots of money. Because the price of those drugs are not going to magically drop,so there is still lots of money to be made from it. Did the price of pot magically drop in states with legalized medicinal marijuana? From what I understand it didn't.


    18,000 murders in Mexico a year is not an improvement by any means. Also, I don't see this as a reason to not lower violence more in the US.

    The violence here in the US usually only affects those who deal with the stuff so I am not worried about it.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

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    Re: Legalize Hard Drugs?

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    i have no problem with whole adult choice argument, i don't agree with it, but i have no problem with it, the problem i have is with the people who seem to think legalising it will stop the cartels, stop drug fueled crimes, stop wrecked lives, and generally take away the negative effects of hard drugs.
    Drugs are here and will remain. How we manage the problem is what needs to change. Until that happens, expect the same.

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    Re: Legalize Hard Drugs?

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    the problem i have is with the people who seem to think legalising it will stop the cartels, stop drug fueled crimes, stop wrecked lives, and generally take away the negative effects of hard drugs.
    How could it not stop cartels? All of the revenue stream for these drugs will be going to legitimate enterprises, for the production and distribution of these hard drugs. The cartels won't be making any money.

    There may still be drug fueled crime, as addicts try to get the money for their next fix. Those folks need rehab treatment. Something creative must be done - perhaps trade a fix for entry into rehab.

    Wrecked lives will continue as they do today.

    There is no way to remove the negative effects of hard drugs.

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    Re: Legalize Hard Drugs?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Again what would stop those countries or even companies here from outsourcing to the cartels.
    Transaction costs, productivity, quality.

    Cartels do not just sell drugs, they are not the illegal drug version of Anheuser-Busch.
    You are correct! Due to the illegality, they are far more "active" (in regards to process management) than Anheuser-Busch. Cartels are also less likely to follow the law

    The vast majority of times stolen and illegal goods are much cheaper than their legal counterparts. Here in the US a preban machine can get expensive due to availability, however those bans do not exist to criminals organizations and in certain countries.
    This is a constant aspect of criminality. Sometimes it is cigarettes, other times it is jewelry. But just so it is clear; there is still theft in illegal drug markets. I am going to assume the current "black market" level exceeds a legal and regulated level. Why? Calling the police to report stolen cocaine receives only a negative response.

    And it will continue to be their significant source of income.
    Agreed. Now there will be less "traffic" in prisons, courtrooms, and squad cars. More police available (because they are no longer looking to bust minor drug sales) to address theft. Not just for the theft in hard drugs, but everything that is stolen. To claim theft will increase in proportion to the drug industry is impossible to support.

    Is the government going to grow the stuff and hand it out for free or for a dirt cheap price?
    Why would it? They can however tax it (being ever so careful not to tax it back into black markets).

    Yes they would.Unless the federal government is growing and making the stuff themselves and handing it out for free or for a dirt cheap price the cartels are still going to make lots of money. Because the price of those drugs are not going to magically drop,so there is still lots of money to be made from it. Did the price of pot magically drop in states with legalized medicinal marijuana? From what I understand it didn't.
    The cartels will be phased out (long term) via innovation and new equilibrium pricing schedules (supply determinant). One of the current issues is purity; people really do not know what they are getting. A regulated industry would eliminate the majority of these instances (reducing overdose, poisoning, hospital visits) through competition. The cost of producing an ounce of pure heroin is nowhere near its illicit market price (greater than $2k/oz). Sheer competition will bring down these profit margins. Other cost aspects such as intercontinental trafficking (soldiers, subs, airplanes) would phase out in favor of less costly, and more efficient means.

    Tell me what business you know of has a 1000% profit margin.

    The violence here in the US usually only affects those who deal with the stuff so I am not worried about it.
    Yet you complain about taxes. The war on drugs (and the violence associated) cost more than $20 billion last year. With great results signaling money well spent. So yes, you are paying for it one way or another.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Legalize Hard Drugs?

    I think there are a lot of serious consequences which can come with the legalization of hard drugs. Especially if you start allowing the pharmaceutical companies and wall street in on it. Designer drugs can be made which can be nearly instantly addicting. On the same accord, I say that if someone wants to do that to themselves, who am I to say no? With something like nationalized healthcare (well even before, we still subsidized emergency care), the rest of us will bear the cost somewhat, but whatever. It's either ban all drugs and harmful products because of that (like alcohol, tobacco, certain sugars, fats, etc) or accept the fact that we'll pay for it so that people are still free to make the choice.
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    Re: Legalize Hard Drugs?

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    How could it not stop cartels? All of the revenue stream for these drugs will be going to legitimate enterprises, for the production and distribution of these hard drugs. The cartels won't be making any money.

    There may still be drug fueled crime, as addicts try to get the money for their next fix. Those folks need rehab treatment. Something creative must be done - perhaps trade a fix for entry into rehab.

    Wrecked lives will continue as they do today.

    There is no way to remove the negative effects of hard drugs.
    how do you propose to make the cartels go along with this?

    like i've said, if you go directly to the growers, the cartels aren't above threatening them with violent reprisals for selling to americans, if you produce it wholly in america, the cost would be great that the cartels could simply undercut the governments price.
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    Re: Legalize Hard Drugs?

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    how do you propose to make the cartels go along with this?

    like i've said, if you go directly to the growers, the cartels aren't above threatening them with violent reprisals for selling to americans, if you produce it wholly in america, the cost would be great that the cartels could simply undercut the governments price.
    Well if it were X amount of coke from the gas station for 50 buck or X amount of coke from some shady ass drug dealer I'd have to meet somehow for 40 dollars....I may just go ahead and go to the gas station. So there's that to consider as well.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Legalize Hard Drugs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Well if it were X amount of coke from the gas station for 50 buck or X amount of coke from some shady ass drug dealer I'd have to meet somehow for 40 dollars....I may just go ahead and go to the gas station. So there's that to consider as well.
    or look at it this way, person you've been buying off for year $40, bloke at gas station $140, 'cause he has to factor in all sorts of things.
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    Re: Legalize Hard Drugs?

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    or look at it this way, person you've been buying off for year $40, bloke at gas station $140, 'cause he has to factor in all sorts of things.
    Then why does this not happen in reality? It is already cheaper to roll your own cigarettes and brew your own beer.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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