View Poll Results: Should the Hutaree militia be waterboarded

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  • I am for waterboarding Al Quaeda and Hutaree terrorists

    8 19.05%
  • I am for waterboarding Al Quaeda terrorists but not Hutaree terrorists

    4 9.52%
  • I am for waterboarding Hutaree terrorists but not Al Quaeda terrorists

    2 4.76%
  • I am against waterboarding Al Quaeda and Hutaree terrorists

    28 66.67%
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Thread: Should the Hutaree militia be waterboarded?

  1. #101
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    Re: Should the Hutaree militia be waterboarded?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Nah, he wants to be snotty to me, I'll just point out factual information regarding his and his unwillingess to stand and fight for their beliefs.


    There was no argument. I was simply pointing out what Jefferson and our other foundng fathers position are on "shaking the tree of liberty"..... A couple of you mistook my point. You were smart enough to get my clarification. Catawba just wanted to continue being snotty.... So he gets what he gives shorty.
    You know I love ya, boo.

  2. #102
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    Re: Should the Hutaree militia be waterboarded?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    There was no argument. I was simply pointing out what Jefferson and our other foundng fathers position are on "shaking the tree of liberty".....
    What did he mean by that exactly? Most people completely mistake it.

    Sorry if I missed your point before, I looked for it.

  3. #103
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    Re: Should the Hutaree militia be waterboarded?

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    What did he mean by that exactly? Most people completely mistake it.

    Sorry if I missed your point before, I looked for it.


    Please respond to post 96. You made a claim, I am asking you for proof.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  4. #104
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    Re: Should the Hutaree militia be waterboarded?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Please respond to post 96. You made a claim, I am asking you for proof.
    You are SUCH a bastard.

    For the record, it largely depends upon how one views government. I believe that all humans are endowed with inalienable rights, and that the proper role of government is to PROTECT those rights. Governments do not give rights to their citizens, but are expected to avoid INFRINGING on existing rights held by all men.
    Last edited by Catz Part Deux; 04-07-10 at 10:58 AM.

  5. #105
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    Re: Should the Hutaree militia be waterboarded?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Please respond to post 96. You made a claim, I am asking you for proof.
    Sorry, I missed post 96.

    Here is my response:

    In general, most rights in the Constitution are expressed as limits on government power. Those limits are not conditioned on who they apply to. They simply limit the governmen'ts power to do certain things, to anyone, i.e. to deny rights. They are the law of the land, and apply to the land, not just to certain people within it. (Obviously, there are certain exception, such as only citizens being allowed to vote).

    The 14th Amendment put this principle into the Constitution (along with saying that it applies to states too):

    "Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. "

    It very clearly says that due process and equal protection apply to all people, not just citizens. Only the "privileges or immunities of citizens" (privileges, as oppose to rights) can be withheld from non-citizens. Rights cannot be.

    Now, I'm still curious about your "tree of liberty" interpretation. Most people completely misunderstand it.

  6. #106
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    Re: Should the Hutaree militia be waterboarded?

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Sorry, I missed post 96.

    Here is my response:

    In general, most rights in the Constitution are expressed as limits on government power. Those limits are not conditioned on who they apply to. They simply limit the governmen'ts power to do certain things, to anyone, i.e. to deny rights. They are the law of the land, and apply to the land, not just to certain people within it. (Obviously, there are certain exception, such as only citizens being allowed to vote).

    The 14th Amendment put this principle into the Constitution (along with saying that it applies to states too):

    "Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. "

    It very clearly says that due process and equal protection apply to all people, not just citizens. Only the "privileges or immunities of citizens" (privileges, as oppose to rights) can be withheld from non-citizens. Rights cannot be.

    Now, I'm still curious about your "tree of liberty" interpretation. Most people completely misunderstand it.




    You forgot this part where it defines the "jurisdiction" as people not in the US, are not in said jurisdiction.






    As for my interpretation of Jefferson's tree of liberty, its pretty self explanatory. That when a government encroaches too far on the liberty of the people, that conflict will break out to defend said liberty.. How do you interprete it?
    Last edited by ReverendHellh0und; 04-07-10 at 11:29 AM.
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  7. #107
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    Re: Should the Hutaree militia be waterboarded?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    You are SUCH a bastard.

    For the record, it largely depends upon how one views government. I believe that all humans are endowed with inalienable rights, and that the proper role of government is to PROTECT those rights. Governments do not give rights to their citizens, but are expected to avoid INFRINGING on existing rights held by all men.



    women too?
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  8. #108
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    Re: Should the Hutaree militia be waterboarded?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    You forgot this part where it defines the "jurisdiction" as people not in the US, are not in said jurisdiction.
    So are you suggesting that natural rights only apply to humans residing on U.S. soil?

  9. #109
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    Re: Should the Hutaree militia be waterboarded?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    You forgot this part where it defines the "jurisdiction" as people not in the US, are not in said jurisdiction.
    That is only the definition of citizenship. It doesn't change the rest one bit.

    As for my interpretation of Jefferson's tree of liberty, its pretty self explanatory. That when a government encroaches too far on the liberty of the people, that conflict will break out to defend said liberty.. How do you interprete it?
    That's not what Jefferson meant at all.

    You have to read the whole letter to understand. Jefferson was saying that rebellion here and there is not a sign of weakness for a democracy. He clearly did not endorse the actual success of any and all rebellions. He said rebellion simply shows that the people still expect liberty and are willing to "warn" governments to respect it. He said the rebellions were usually the result of uninformed people who needed to be educated about the truth in order to be pacified. I find the parallels to the teabaggers very interesting in that regard.

    And can history produce an instance of rebellion so honourably conducted? I say nothing of it's motives. They were founded in ignorance, not wickedness. God forbid we should ever be 20 years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, & always well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. We have had 13. states independent 11. years. There has been one rebellion. That comes to one rebellion in a century & a half for each state. What country before ever existed a century & a half without a rebellion? & what country can preserve it's liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon & pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it's natural manure.
    Sidebar - Tree of Liberty Letter

  10. #110
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    Re: Should the Hutaree militia be waterboarded?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    So are you suggesting that natural rights only apply to humans residing on U.S. soil?



    Actually, no. I am saying that the 14th amendment states the rights in the USC only apply within its borders.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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