View Poll Results: Should the Hutaree militia be waterboarded

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  • I am for waterboarding Al Quaeda and Hutaree terrorists

    8 19.05%
  • I am for waterboarding Al Quaeda terrorists but not Hutaree terrorists

    4 9.52%
  • I am for waterboarding Hutaree terrorists but not Al Quaeda terrorists

    2 4.76%
  • I am against waterboarding Al Quaeda and Hutaree terrorists

    28 66.67%
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Thread: Should the Hutaree militia be waterboarded?

  1. #91
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    Re: Should the Hutaree militia be waterboarded?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    It is the Christian way. God does not like brown peoples! He was on our side in the wars on terrorism, was he not?
    It is like the American right wing in this country believes the only people who have the basic right to keep their dignity are redneck terrorists from Ruby Ridge and child molesters from Waco.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  2. #92
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    Re: Should the Hutaree militia be waterboarded?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Lmao. This is is so ridiculous and more proof that the American right is a joke. The right to not be tortured is apparently something only American citizens have.
    So is there no way that someone can believe that non-citizens don't have all of the same legal rights that citizens do? Because according to the Constitution, they don't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    It is the Christian way. God does not like brown peoples! He was on our side in the wars on terrorism, was he not?
    There are U.S. citizens who are "brown peoples", you know. Not that the statement wouldn't have been a useless straw man anyways.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    It is like the American right wing in this country believes the only people who have the basic right to keep their dignity are redneck terrorists from Ruby Ridge and child molesters from Waco.
    I keep wanting to apologize for going over-the-top in another thread, but then I keep seeing more motivation not to like this.
    Last edited by Dav; 04-07-10 at 01:24 AM.

  3. #93
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    Re: Should the Hutaree militia be waterboarded?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    There are U.S. citizens who are "brown peoples", you know. Not that the statement wouldn't have been a useless straw man anyways.
    I was making a point about some "christians" here supporting torture of Muslim terrorists, but not American terrorists.

    How many of the Hutaree arrested were brown peoples?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  4. #94
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    Re: Should the Hutaree militia be waterboarded?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    So is there no way that someone can believe that non-citizens don't have all of the same legal rights that citizens do? Because according to the Constitution, they don't.
    Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Read about it.

    I keep wanting to apologize for going over-the-top in another thread, but then I keep seeing more motivation not to like this.
    Want me to buy you a ticket to Cuba?
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  5. #95
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    Re: Should the Hutaree militia be waterboarded?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    So is there no way that someone can believe that non-citizens don't have all of the same legal rights that citizens do? Because according to the Constitution, they don't.
    With a few exceptions, non-citizens have all the same legal rights that citizens do, and the Constitution says so. (Even without the Universal Declaration of Human Rights).

  6. #96
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    Re: Should the Hutaree militia be waterboarded?

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    With a few exceptions, non-citizens have all the same legal rights that citizens do, and the Constitution says so. (Even without the Universal Declaration of Human Rights).



    What section/clause?
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  7. #97
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    Re: Should the Hutaree militia be waterboarded?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    So is there no way that someone can believe that non-citizens don't have all of the same legal rights that citizens do? Because according to the Constitution, they don't.
    "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, and endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights..."

    There wasn't even an America when those words were written. Nor was there a constitution. Those words served as the primary justification for CREATING AMERICA. They are a foundational concept of this nation since its inception in July of 1776. They are a foundational concept that our founding fathers drafted and signed off on before declaring war on England to win our freedom. They are based upon the concept of natural rights, as clearly articulated in the philosophy of John Locke, and have served as the foundational justification for democratic nations around the world to free themselves from monarchy and tyranny.

    A little light reading on natural rights:

    Jefferson borrowed the expression from an Italian friend and neighbor, Philip Mazzei,[3] as noted by Joint Resolution 175 of the 103rd Congress as well as John F. Kennedy in "A Nation Of Immigrants."[4][5]

    The opening of the United States Declaration of Independence written by Thomas Jefferson in 1776, states as follows:

    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed;[6]
    The same concept appears in the Massachusetts Constitution of 1780, which was written mostly by John Adams.[7] The Declaration of Rights of the Inhabitants of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts which opens that constitution states:

    Article I. All men are born free and equal, and have certain natural, essential, and unalienable rights; among which may be reckoned the right of enjoying and defending their lives and liberties; that of acquiring, possessing, and protecting property; in fine, that of seeking and obtaining their safety and happiness.[8]
    The plaintiffs in the cases of Brom and Bett v. John Ashley and Commonwealth v. Nathaniel Jennison argued that this provision abolished slavery in Massachusetts.[9] The latter case resulted in a a "sweeping declaration . . . that the institution of slavery was incompatible with the principles of liberty and legal equality articulated in the new Massachusetts Constitution".[10]

    These statements illustrated the idea of natural rights, a philosophical concept of the Enlightenment and many of the ideas in the Declaration were borrowed from the English liberal political philosopher John Locke. Locke, however, referred to "life, liberty and Property" rather than the pursuit of happiness.[11]

    The phrase has since been considered a hallmark statement in democratic constitutions and similar human rights instruments, many of which have adopted the phrase or variants thereof.
    Jefferson's phrase, justifying the separation of the colonies from England, was later borrowed by France:

    [ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_the_Rights_of_Man_and_of_the_Citize n[/ame]

    And, by the member nations of the UN for international human rights treaties.

    [ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_human_rights_instruments[/ame]


    Furthermore, Jeffersons words were a foundational concept of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which we and other nations signed off on in 1948.

    [ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Declaration_of_Human_Rights[/ame]


    The natural rights of human beings is such a fundamental concept in America that I really do not understand how ANY AMERICAN can attempt to justify the use of torture for any reason.

    To be frank, denying the fundamental human rights of any other person on this planet is, or should be, ANATHEMA to an American. It is the most basic and repugnant betrayal of who we are, as a nation.
    Last edited by Catz Part Deux; 04-07-10 at 10:40 AM.

  8. #98
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    Re: Should the Hutaree militia be waterboarded?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    What I said was that the government should always be afraid of being voted out of office, they should not be afraid of being killed at a friends funeral.

    I am very happy to hear that you agree!

    We trust you will all let us know if and when the government ever becomes tyrannical. Some claim that it is already but we are comforted with the knowledge that you know better!

    Actually I quoted what you said. Lets not be dishonest and change what you said into something else in order to save face.....


    But lets say if that day ever comes, you can rest assured that you and yours will have other brave souls ready to fight to defend that tyranny you would most assuredly love.... Cause we know you and yours wouldn't have said stones to come to the fight yourselves..
    Last edited by ReverendHellh0und; 04-07-10 at 10:41 AM.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Should the Hutaree militia be waterboarded?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Well if that day ever comes, you can rest assured that you and yours will have other brave souls ready to fight to defend that tyranny you would most assuredly love.... Cause we know you and yours wouldn't have said stones to come to the fight yourselves..
    And we know that you'd never use a logical fallacy in lieu of an argument.

  10. #100
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    Re: Should the Hutaree militia be waterboarded?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    And we know that you'd never use a logical fallacy in lieu of an argument.



    Nah, he wants to be snotty to me, I'll just point out factual information regarding his and his unwillingess to stand and fight for their beliefs.


    There was no argument. I was simply pointing out what Jefferson and our other foundng fathers position are on "shaking the tree of liberty"..... A couple of you mistook my point. You were smart enough to get my clarification. Catawba just wanted to continue being snotty.... So he gets what he gives shorty.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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