View Poll Results: Which do you Prefer

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  • A purely Socialist economy

    5 6.25%
  • An economy with more Socialism then Capitalism

    10 12.50%
  • An economy with equal Socialist and Capitalist ideas

    12 15.00%
  • An economy with more Capitalism then Socialism

    34 42.50%
  • A purely Capitalist society

    19 23.75%
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Thread: Socialism vs. Capitalism

  1. #151
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    lizzie's Avatar
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    Re: Socialism vs. Capitalism

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    There absolutely nothing in that which necessitates that the workers have any control over the state.
    Belief that workers can have any control over the state or real shared power is a pipe dream.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
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  2. #152
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    Re: Socialism vs. Capitalism

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    Belief that workers can have any control over the state or real shared power is a pipe dream.
    Oh, there -could- be -- but nothing -necesitates- it.

    Its perfectly possible for a true, full democracy to be a socialist state, but its equally possible for a socialist state to be ruled by despot.

  3. #153
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    Re: Socialism vs. Capitalism

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Its perfectly possible for a true, full democracy to be a socialist state, but its equally possible for a socialist state to be ruled by despot.
    Taking the general nature of humankind into account, I don't think it's possible. Maybe at some time far in the future, when we have evolved a good bit, but not now. And I do realize this is purely subjective on my part.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
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  4. #154
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    Re: Socialism vs. Capitalism

    Quote Originally Posted by repeter View Post
    I've always felt the argument between Socialism and Capitalism has been stupid. It's a case of moderation, and balance, where we need elements of both to succeed.

    Consider pure Capitalism, in the late 1800's, with the railroad, steel, and oil industries to name a few. A few companies had monopolies over entire industries, and because there were no effective anti-trust laws, they dominated those for years.

    Consider pure Socialism. The Soviet Union fell apart because the institution simply didn't work. I really don't think I need to say anymore about Socialism.

    Now, consider the United States after WWII. We had a booming Capitalist society, the mass suburbinization of the country, and we had in place lots of socialist regulations and ideas. Our country flourished under this mix of ideology, and Western Europe followed in our footsteps, with varying levels of a mix between Socialism and Capitalism.

    So where do you stand on this?
    Soviet fell apart because of militarism, NOT because of socialism.
    Europe is illegally occupied by the US

  5. #155
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    Re: Socialism vs. Capitalism

    Quote Originally Posted by faminedynasty
    Communism will eventually exist after a few generations of workers in power worldwide.
    The funny thing is that people have been saying that for generations. If communism was readily embraceable by a significant portion of the population, you'd see it. You don't because communism is a self-defeating mechanism.

    Workers will never be in power because there are too many. Economics works on scarcity, and you can't bend the concepts of supply and demand when it comes to capital and cheap labor.

    Nobody likes stagnation. If you told an engineer he would make the same amount of money as an assembly worker, he'd tell you to screw yourself, and with good reason. That's why the worker will never be in power. If all the power is held at the bottom, you remove the desire for anyone to make it to the top, which is a vital cog in the system.

  6. #156
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    Re: Socialism vs. Capitalism

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    He understands communism quite well, at least as invented by Marx. Maybe there's some communism out there now that coexists with capitalism, but classical Communist theory says communism eclipses capitalism. If that hasn't happened, it's not really communism. Perhaps it's socialism.
    As we already know, dogmatic beliefs very rarely pan out.

    I think that there are some benefits of communist theory and they have already been with us since the beginning.
    The family unit is a communal structure and in general it's a good thing.

    I see two possibilities of the future, a caste system and a system of general equality.
    The caste system will be with us as long as the state divides us by arbitrary measures of income.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  7. #157
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    Re: Socialism vs. Capitalism

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    This is why we define these concepts, and don't just say that we're coming from "reality" (whatever that means). I mean I could quote you the Marxist definition of state but then you'd just counter with your "reality" definition of it.
    What is the minimum that would be defined as a state by Marx?
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  8. #158
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    Re: Socialism vs. Capitalism

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla
    What is the minimum that would be defined as a state by Marx?
    All Marx does is discuss the state as a "classless society" and offers some weak, pipe-dreamish arguments about the power of the collective. The most realistic sample of this that you can see in real life would be if you rented Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs. After all, they're happy. They even whistle.

  9. #159
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    Re: Socialism vs. Capitalism

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    All Marx does is discuss the state as a "classless society" and offers some weak, pipe-dreamish arguments about the power of the collective. The most realistic sample of this that you can see in real life would be if you rented Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs. After all, they're happy. They even whistle.


    I think there will always be rich and poor but as technology advances it is plausible for a classless society to exist.
    Although it may to something else other than income.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  10. #160
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    Re: Socialism vs. Capitalism

    Quote Originally Posted by repeter View Post
    I was under the impression that they still had what could be considered a Socialist economy.

    Even if that isn't the case, I'm just using Socialism to depict centrally-planned economies, which don't work regardless of where and when.
    I think the difference between socialism and communism is probably that socialism can coexist with democracy. A communist system requires a total revolution in the political system, with a communist party running things, etc., at least according to communists.

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