View Poll Results: Which do you Prefer

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  • A purely Socialist economy

    5 6.25%
  • An economy with more Socialism then Capitalism

    10 12.50%
  • An economy with equal Socialist and Capitalist ideas

    12 15.00%
  • An economy with more Capitalism then Socialism

    34 42.50%
  • A purely Capitalist society

    19 23.75%
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Thread: Socialism vs. Capitalism

  1. #131
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    Re: Socialism vs. Capitalism

    Quote Originally Posted by faminedynasty View Post
    The idea is there. Socialism is needed to make it a reality.
    How is this so?
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
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  2. #132
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    Re: Socialism vs. Capitalism

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    You act as if capitalism is a 20th century invention. Capitalism has been around sime time immemorial and has just evolved through the progression of man. Be it feudalism, mercantilism, corporatism, or pure laissez-faire free market, you're not talking about a recent invention. The concept that someone can be king of the mountain is indeed a driving force not just in economics but in almost any aspect of society and mankind-driven philosophy. Nobody strives to be "equal"; nobody wants to be just adequate - at least not on a large-scale level. Capitalism drives itself because of the simple and perpetual Darwinian theories it exudes. To be the man, you have to beat the man - and if you ever fall from grace, someone will be there that's bigger and better. Communism and socialism both strive to stifle the collective masses and not reward any sort of ambition or independent thought, which is the innate reason why it fails universally. The Soviet Union failed because it was broke, period. Its economy was absolutely stagnate, and could not compete against a free-market juggernaut.

    If you think capitalism causes a lot of ruckus and in-fighting, I challenge you to find a significant population who think they really embrace communistic values. You'll find them revert mentally and physically to almost a carnal level, and when it's time to back the talk up with action, it's nowhere to be seen.
    Communism has existed along side capitalism forever.
    They are not mutually exclusive concepts and can/have worked well together.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  3. #133
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    Re: Socialism vs. Capitalism

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Communism has existed along side capitalism forever.
    They are not mutually exclusive concepts and can/have worked well together.
    No. Communism is a classless society which can arise only after the workers have seized power. Capitalism is class society ruled by the bourgeoisie.
    Modern capitalism has existed since the 20th century. Communism will eventually exist after a few generations of workers in power worldwide.
    Last edited by faminedynasty; 04-02-10 at 02:01 AM.
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  4. #134
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    Re: Socialism vs. Capitalism

    Quote Originally Posted by faminedynasty View Post
    No. Communism is a classless society which can arise only after the workers have seized power. Capitalism is class society ruled by the bourgeoisie.
    Modern capitalism has existed since the 20th century. Communism will eventually exist after a few generations of workers in power.
    It's evident you don't understand capitalism nor communism.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  5. #135
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    Re: Socialism vs. Capitalism

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    It's evident you don't understand capitalism nor communism.
    Well I'm coming at it from a Marxist perspective. And you are coming at it from... a made-up one?
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  6. #136
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    Re: Socialism vs. Capitalism

    Quote Originally Posted by faminedynasty View Post
    Well I'm coming at it from a Marxist perspective. And you are coming at it from... a made-up one?
    Reality, both have existed together forever.

    What your talking about is statist economies which will never develop past dictatorial quasi-command economies.

    You have to recognize the the good that both have and then look at the real world to see how they can coexist together.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Socialism vs. Capitalism

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Reality, both have existed together forever.

    What your talking about is statist economies which will never develop past dictatorial quasi-command economies.

    You have to recognize the the good that both have and then look at the real world to see how they can coexist together.
    Statist? Along with being Classless, Communism is necessarily a Stateless society.
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  8. #138
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    Re: Socialism vs. Capitalism

    Quote Originally Posted by faminedynasty View Post
    Statist? Along with being Classless, Communism is necessarily a Stateless society.
    I understand that.

    It still depends on what you call a state though.
    Is a community a state?
    They operate on mutually agreed upon principles, the earlier societies where communal but also capitalistic.

    They worked together but traded their wares/goods for other items of perceived higher value.
    There may have been a town elder or group of elders to act as representative.
    These types of groups are still possible but it will take time to develop.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  9. #139
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    Re: Socialism vs. Capitalism

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    It's evident you don't understand capitalism nor communism.
    He understands communism quite well, at least as invented by Marx. Maybe there's some communism out there now that coexists with capitalism, but classical Communist theory says communism eclipses capitalism. If that hasn't happened, it's not really communism. Perhaps it's socialism.

  10. #140
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    Re: Socialism vs. Capitalism

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper
    Really? This is a counterpoint?

    I know you want to use humanism as some sort of driving and connecting force when you put together simple economics and tendencies of man, but this proves nothing. It's essentially a big "que sera, sera" with regards to the evolution of market economies. It's a giant red herring, and essentially along the lines of a distraction point by attempting to pit "nature" against an obvious progression of human thinking. Economics acts through human action, not feelings, speculation, and wishful thinking by those who sit the sidelines and ponder stupid crap.

    That's why Marx loses. He'd have been a great capitalist if he kept his head out of the clouds and tried to predict human action instead of manipulate it.
    That's the problem right there with what you're saying. You think that if society has an economy it must invariably capitalist, which is just silly and broadens the definition of capitalism to meaninglessness. The point of the quote I posted was that capitalism is a historical epoch, that was preceded by other systems and (here I am not referring to the quote) will be superseded by further systems.

    The rest of this quote is just rambling.

    Not by much. It may fork and branch off at places but all roads ultimately lead back here.
    Alright well if you think that then I don't really want to discuss it with you because that's a completely moronic view to take and shows you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

    I'm sure you believe that, just like I truly believe that if a "Marxist" ever actually sat down and read things like The Communist Manifesto and Das Kapital (which I have), you'd have much fewer angst-ridden 15 year olds violently masturbating to posters of Lenin and Trotsky in their parents' basements.
    ZING!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla
    I understand that.

    It still depends on what you call a state though.
    Is a community a state?
    This is why we define these concepts, and don't just say that we're coming from "reality" (whatever that means). I mean I could quote you the Marxist definition of state but then you'd just counter with your "reality" definition of it.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

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