View Poll Results: Which do you Prefer

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  • A purely Socialist economy

    5 6.25%
  • An economy with more Socialism then Capitalism

    10 12.50%
  • An economy with equal Socialist and Capitalist ideas

    12 15.00%
  • An economy with more Capitalism then Socialism

    34 42.50%
  • A purely Capitalist society

    19 23.75%
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Thread: Socialism vs. Capitalism

  1. #101
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    Re: Socialism vs. Capitalism

    In reality, in socialism the workers have no power. The state has power and the workers are like bees in a hive. If we were like bees and all willingly sacrificed for the good of the colony, it might work, but humans are a wee bit evolved compared to honeybees.
    If the workers don't have power then it can't be socialism because socialism by definition is the dictatorship of the working class.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

  2. #102
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    Re: Socialism vs. Capitalism

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoplite View Post
    I dont want to be nit-picking or derail the thread, but what the USSR had was not pure Socialism. It was Communism which IS different from Socialism.
    I don't want to be nit picking, but what the USSR had was Dictatorial Socialism.
    Communism has only ever been practised in one Nation and then not as the National Government.

    The Kibbutz system in Israel was as close as one can get to pure Communism.

    The Leaders were elected by the members, they (including leaders) all worked doing a variety of tasks.

  3. #103
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    Re: Socialism vs. Capitalism

    Quote Originally Posted by jujuman13 View Post
    I don't want to be nit picking, but what the USSR had was Dictatorial Socialism.
    State-Capitalism, actually, but that's another debate.
    "We may have destroyed this country, but we got rich doing it!" --The GOP
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  4. #104
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    Re: Socialism vs. Capitalism

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    If the workers don't have power then it can't be socialism because socialism by definition is the dictatorship of the working class.
    In theory it sounds great, but in reality it can't exist. Socialism in a human construct system would be a dictatorship over the working class. The great majority of humans could not handle otherwise because they can't even maintain power over their own impulses.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
    -C G Jung

  5. #105
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    Re: Socialism vs. Capitalism

    In theory it sounds great, but in reality it can't exist.
    Earlier (and later in your post, see below) you claimed that "[i]n reality, in socialism the workers have no power." Here you claim that it cannot exist in reality. Your statements are contradictory. Either it can exist or it cannot, but it cannot be both.

    You can argue this latter one if you want, but please don't be dishonest and distort definitions for your own ends.

    Socialism in a human construct system would be a dictatorship over the working class.
    Then it isn't socialism.

    God, you go right on to contradict yourself in the same post!
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

  6. #106
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    Re: Socialism vs. Capitalism

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    In theory it sounds great, but in reality it can't exist. Socialism in a human construct system would be a dictatorship over the working class. The great majority of humans could not handle otherwise because they can't even maintain power over their own impulses.
    So democracy can't work either?

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  7. #107
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    Re: Socialism vs. Capitalism

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Then it isn't socialism.
    How do you figure? How else do you get workers all under the same company running things and prevent some from starting their own company? It has to be a dictatorship of the workers.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  8. #108
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    Re: Socialism vs. Capitalism

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez
    How do you figure?
    The definition of socialism is working class power. If there is no working class power then there can be no socialism. It's a simple identity. A ≡ A. If A is not the same as A then it cannot be A and must be something else.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

  9. #109
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    Re: Socialism vs. Capitalism

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    So democracy can't work either?
    Not in the long-run.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
    -C G Jung

  10. #110
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    Re: Socialism vs. Capitalism

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    The definition of socialism is working class power. If there is no working class power then there can be no socialism. It's a simple identity. A ≡ A. If A is not the same as A then it cannot be A and must be something else.
    Socialism is dictatorship of the working class by the working class. There was nothing wrong with what Lizzie said in that specific quote.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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