View Poll Results: What are reasonable restrictions/infringements on 1st and second amendment rights?

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  • A license/permit required to exercise certain or all 1st amendment rights

    6 15.79%
  • A license/permit required to exercise certain or all 2nd amendment rights

    22 57.89%
  • Registration requirement of some or all of your books and other 1st amendment related things

    2 5.26%
  • Registration requirement of some or all of your firearms and other weapons.

    30 78.95%
  • A ban on certain books,religions, what the press can report and etc.

    3 7.89%
  • A ban on certain weapons.

    24 63.16%
  • A ban on certain individuals from exercising 1st amendment rights

    3 7.89%
  • A ban on certain individuals form exercising 2nd amendment rights

    17 44.74%
  • A total ban on 1st amendment rights

    2 5.26%
  • A total ban on 2nd amendment rights

    3 7.89%
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Thread: What are reasonable restrictions/infringements on 1st and second amendment rights?

  1. #271
    Klattu Verata Nicto
    LaMidRighter's Avatar
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    Re: What are reasonable restrictions/infringements on 1st and second amendment rights

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Careful, LMR, your hand might get bitten when you try to put words in someone else's mouth.
    Nope, you are demonstrating throughout this thread that you think every right has subsets, part of it was your idea that prior restraint only applies to freedom of speech, this is false, but hey, don't mind my logic it's only based on what is patently obvious.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  2. #272
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: What are reasonable restrictions/infringements on 1st and second amendment rights

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Yes. And like many other laws, they aren't always prosecuted.
    If it is such a big deal for felons to not have guns, and that everyone's right to arms should be infringed just to stop them from doing so, why should felons that try to buy guns NOT be prosecuted?

    Either its important or its not; can't have it both ways.

  3. #273
    The Philosoph from Europe bennyhill's Avatar
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    Re: What are reasonable restrictions/infringements on 1st and second amendment rights

    Maybe because convicted cons have either killed people or used guns to comit crimes, meaning they have proven imature to own a gun. Of course they could always buy a illegal gun, but that would send them back to prison anyhow.
    Liberalism is freedom from tyranny. People of world unite to free us from Wallstreet!

    Republicanism is just another word for remaining selfish and ego-centric!

  4. #274
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: What are reasonable restrictions/infringements on 1st and second amendment rights

    Quote Originally Posted by bennyhill View Post
    Maybe because convicted cons have either killed people or used guns to comit crimes, meaning they have proven imature to own a gun.
    Ok.... and if keeping them from buying a gun is SO important that the right to arms -needs- to be infringed, why should felons that try to buy guns - committing a felony -- not be prosecuted for same?

  5. #275
    Sage
    misterman's Avatar
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    Re: What are reasonable restrictions/infringements on 1st and second amendment rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    If it is such a big deal for felons to not have guns, and that everyone's right to arms should be infringed just to stop them from doing so, why should felons that try to buy guns NOT be prosecuted?

    Either its important or its not; can't have it both ways.
    Nope. I can have one but not the other if I want to. Nothing inconsistent. Prosecutors use discretion all the time. You don't seem to mind when it comes to other laws.

  6. #276
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: What are reasonable restrictions/infringements on 1st and second amendment rights

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Nope. I can have one but not the other if I want to.
    No, no you can't
    You're arguing that felons should not have guns and that its ia OK to infringe the rights of the law abiding so that they cannot get them, but it -is- OK for them to not be prosecuted when they try to buy one.

    The absurdity of this is is plain on its face.

    Further, that it is not important enough to prosecute clearly illustrates that there is no compelling state interest in the background check; absent that compelling state interest the check itself fails the test of strict scrutiny and is therefore an unconsitutional restriction on the right of the people.
    Prosecutors use discretion all the time.
    Jaywalking isnt a felony, and isn't so important that it requires the infringement of a right in order to stop. Either its a big deal or its not.
    You don't seem to mind when it comes to other laws.
    Such as...?

  7. #277
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    Re: What are reasonable restrictions/infringements on 1st and second amendment rights

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Nope, you are demonstrating throughout this thread that you think every right has subsets, part of it was your idea that prior restraint only applies to freedom of speech, this is false, but hey, don't mind my logic it's only based on what is patently obvious.
    I never said prior restraint only applies to freedom of speech.

    Go read my actual words.

  8. #278
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    Re: What are reasonable restrictions/infringements on 1st and second amendment rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    No, no you can't
    You're arguing that felons should not have guns and that its ia OK to infringe the rights of the law abiding so that they cannot get them, but it -is- OK for them to not be prosecuted when they try to buy one.

    The absurdity of this is is plain on its face.
    Go complain to every prosecutor in America then, because it happens all the time with many kinds of crimes.

    But suppose we dropped the penalty, and just left the background check, preventing unlawful gun sales. Ignoring the constitutionality issue for a moment, would you still find the law worthless or "unenforced"?

    Further, that it is not important enough to prosecute clearly illustrates that there is no compelling state interest in the background check; absent that compelling state interest the check itself fails the test of strict scrutiny and is therefore an unconsitutional restriction on the right of the people.
    There's a compelling state interest in preventing gun ownership by those who are not legally allowed to own one.

    Jaywalking isnt a felony, and isn't so important that it requires the infringement of a right in order to stop. Either its a big deal or its not.
    The jaywalking is an analogy.

    Such as...?
    Now you need me to name all the laws that aren't fully prosecuted? Many non-violent ones involve selective prosecution.
    Last edited by misterman; 04-08-10 at 05:13 PM.

  9. #279
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: What are reasonable restrictions/infringements on 1st and second amendment rights

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Go complain to every prosecutor in America then, because it happens all the time with many kinds of crimes.
    YOU are the one arguing that it is acceptable for the state to not prosecute a felony, one relatied to an isusse of (supposedly) great societal importance, one so great that it justified the infringement of the rights of the law-abiding.

    As I said, the absuridy of this is self-evident; your attempt to equivocate yourself out of is illustrates your recognition of same.

    There's a compelling state interest in preventing gun ownership by those who are not legally allowed to own one.
    Apparently not, if the attempt to purchase same is not found important enough to prosecute.

    This is no different than making it illegal to drink and drive, with all kinds of associated penalties for doing so, and then ignoring those that do it.

    The jaywalking is an analogy.
    It was -your- supporting argument. As such, it fails.

    Now you need me to name all the laws that aren't fully prosecuted?
    No... just the ones you claim I am OK with not prosecuting.

  10. #280
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: What are reasonable restrictions/infringements on 1st and second amendment rights

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    But suppose we dropped the penalty, and just left the background check, preventing unlawful gun sales. Ignoring the constitutionality issue for a moment, would you still find the law worthless or "unenforced"?
    You're asking me if, once you remove all the things that are wrong with it, is there still anything wrong with it?
    That's just silly.

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