View Poll Results: What are reasonable restrictions/infringements on 1st and second amendment rights?

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  • A license/permit required to exercise certain or all 1st amendment rights

    6 15.79%
  • A license/permit required to exercise certain or all 2nd amendment rights

    22 57.89%
  • Registration requirement of some or all of your books and other 1st amendment related things

    2 5.26%
  • Registration requirement of some or all of your firearms and other weapons.

    30 78.95%
  • A ban on certain books,religions, what the press can report and etc.

    3 7.89%
  • A ban on certain weapons.

    24 63.16%
  • A ban on certain individuals from exercising 1st amendment rights

    3 7.89%
  • A ban on certain individuals form exercising 2nd amendment rights

    17 44.74%
  • A total ban on 1st amendment rights

    2 5.26%
  • A total ban on 2nd amendment rights

    3 7.89%
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Thread: What are reasonable restrictions/infringements on 1st and second amendment rights?

  1. #161
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    Re: What are reasonable restrictions/infringements on 1st and second amendment rights

    Quote Originally Posted by jacksbrat View Post
    Yes, but this was still while the civilian people made up the army(militia)
    Try invading the USA and see how fast the citizen becomes a militiaman again.

    At the outset of WW2, Admiral Yamamoto advised against invading the US mainland because "behind every blade of grass would be a rifleman."



    Actually, I own a gun myself, and aren't arguing that people don't have a right to a gun, I'm saying that I believe the government has every right to license and register, and control the sales of guns. One day it will have to happen. The day is coming when you won't be able to shoot a gun without hitting someone. Do we just continue the stupidity?

    THAT is just ludicrous. What do you think, we're all going to be living in mile-high arcologies and walking down hallways crammed cheek-by-jowl?

    Population growth has been in decline for some time. There is conjecture that population growth will level off soon. Even so, there's still lots of wide open spaces.

    I have my doubts that you own a gun, you don't seem to have much knowlege about firearm realities. "can't shoot a gun without hittting someone", pah. I can shoot a cigarette out of your hand with a .22 rifle and not scratch you, and I'm far from the best. Ever been to Wyoming? There are places where you can drive for hours without seeing a house or another car. Ever been to a range? They have this high tech device called a backstop... a pile of dirt that stops bullets.
    Last edited by Goshin; 04-04-10 at 11:16 PM.

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  2. #162
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    Re: What are reasonable restrictions/infringements on 1st and second amendment rights

    For every study hatuey can cite promoting gun control as crime control I can post as many in opposition such as More Guns Less crime by Lott. What is funny is that most of the anti gun studies were started by anti gunners while many of the studies that support gun ownship were also started by anti gunners such as Lott and Kleck who saw the light

    Another Example is Paxton Quigley who was a militant gun hater who investigated why so many women were buying guns --she is now a major league proponent of gun ownership.

    and we have those studies that tried to prove that the clinton gun ban helped things and turned out it the best they could find was no impact whatsoever (NEJoM)

    In other words, the issue is unsettled. We do have lots of empirical evidence of how gun control only disarms victims which is why DC and Chicago experienced more crime after handgun bans were imposed

    can you find one study where a pro gunner studied the issue and came to conclude guns needed to be banned?

    I was a classmate of Ian Ayers at Yale (81) he was a very good scholar but not one I'd trust as objective. People like him are the sort of people who hate guns because its a form of power he doesn't know much about and cannot control
    Last edited by TurtleDude; 04-04-10 at 11:16 PM.



  3. #163
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    Re: What are reasonable restrictions/infringements on 1st and second amendment rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Try invading the USA and see how fast the citizen becomes a militiaman again.

    At the outset of WW2, Admiral Yamamoto advised against invading the US mainland because "behind every blade of grass would be a rifleman."






    THAT is just ludicrous. What do you think, we're all going to be living in mile-high arcologies and walking down hallways crammed cheek-by-jowl?

    Population growth has been in decline for some time. There is conjecture that population growth will level off soon. Even so, there's still lots of wide open spaces.

    I have my doubts that you own a gun, you don't seem to have much knowlege about firearm realities. "can't shoot a gun without hittting someone", pah. I can shoot a cigarette out of your hand with a .22 rifle and not scratch you, and I'm far from the best. Ever been to Wyoming? There are places where you can drive for hours without seeing a house or another car.


    My BS detector just redlined when he claimed he was a gun owner



  4. #164
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    Re: What are reasonable restrictions/infringements on 1st and second amendment rights

    Quote Originally Posted by jacksbrat View Post
    You're right. Neither is it a pick and choose what you like,either. It says this:A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. The words "regulated militia" is not part of another amendment, or even in another sentence in this amendment, it's part of the same line where you pick out your "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." as if that's the only thing it says. If the writers wanted the "a well regulated militia" par ignored, why did they bother putting it in there? Seems to me it's the subject of the amendment. You can't just ignore it.
    That makes no sense whatsoever.

  5. #165
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    Re: What are reasonable restrictions/infringements on 1st and second amendment rights

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    My BS detector just redlined when he claimed he was a gun owner
    Perhaps it is a bb gun or one of those plastic pellet guns that he owns or maybe a cap gun or just a replica of a gun.


    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I am against it on numerous grounds

    1) it facilitates confiscation or a tax on guns presently owned

    2) it infringes on our rights

    3) I don't trust the database being secure--someone can hack into it and target homes for theft or crooked cops can use it to steal guns

    4) it has no crime fighting utility

    5) criminals or others banned from owning guns are exempt under 5th amendment grounds


    so why do you want it


    I think he wants it for the top two reasons.
    Last edited by jamesrage; 04-04-10 at 11:35 PM.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

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  6. #166
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    Re: What are reasonable restrictions/infringements on 1st and second amendment rights

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Perhaps it is a bb gun or one of those plastic pellet guns that he owns or maybe a cap gun or just a replica of a gun.






    I think he wants it for the top two reasons.
    agreed

    almost all gun restrictionists favor such stuff to punish people who don't buy into their pillowheaded utopian view of the world. Crime control has nothing to do with their motivations unless they are the really low wattage version of the group

    too much evidence proves that gun control is not crime control

    we all remember sarah brady braying that CCW licenses would mean blood running in the streets and shoot outs over fender benders

    we all remember her shrieking that the clinton awb sunsetting would mean machine gun fights in public parks

    the gun banners have no credibility since

    1) their stated reasons were not what motivated them but were facades for hate

    2) and their real reasons are pernicious, anti american and fascistic



  7. #167
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    Re: What are reasonable restrictions/infringements on 1st and second amendment rights

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    agreed

    almost all gun restrictionists favor such stuff to punish people who don't buy into their pillowheaded utopian view of the world. Crime control has nothing to do with their motivations unless they are the really low wattage version of the group

    too much evidence proves that gun control is not crime control

    we all remember sarah brady braying that CCW licenses would mean blood running in the streets and shoot outs over fender benders

    we all remember her shrieking that the clinton awb sunsetting would mean machine gun fights in public parks

    the gun banners have no credibility since

    1) their stated reasons were not what motivated them but were facades for hate

    2) and their real reasons are pernicious, anti american and fascistic
    Post #160 is still waiting for you.
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  8. #168
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    Re: What are reasonable restrictions/infringements on 1st and second amendment rights

    Quote Originally Posted by repeter View Post
    Post #160 is still waiting for you.
    How many cases have been solved by looking at a firearm registry and how many crimes have gun registries prevented? Is there any statistics on this.

    Is there even any news stories like "gun registry helps police save the day" or "gun registries help police solve a crime"? I am pretty sure if such stories existed the liberal scum in the media would air it 24/7 just like the do the school shooting stories while ignoring or giving token mention to someone saving the day with a firearm.
    Last edited by jamesrage; 04-04-10 at 11:56 PM.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  9. #169
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    Re: What are reasonable restrictions/infringements on 1st and second amendment rights

    Quote Originally Posted by repeter View Post
    Post #160 is still waiting for you.
    Yeah its all BS, I saw it, You obviously know very little about the subject

    you see setting up a system that could be used to tax people is the reason I am against it, not because I worry about you individually but because I have heard dozens of politicians advocating such things

    and yeah people who would seize guns of people in violation of due process ought to be shot.

    and your desires are truly fascist

    police do deal with people with guns and the ones who would harm police officers usually don't have registered weapons or ones bought legally

    and if they do and are willing to kill police officers registration obviously did nothing

    edify me as to your law enforcement background



  10. #170
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    Re: What are reasonable restrictions/infringements on 1st and second amendment rights

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    How many cases have been solved by looking at a firearm registry and how many crimes have gun registries prevented? Is there any statistics on this.

    Is there even any news stories like "gun registry helps police save the day" or "gun registries help police solve a crime"?
    While I don't feel like googling it now, Hawaii-an Island has registered guns for years and a study indicates that their registration has had zero uses in solving crimes.

    we do know that gun registration was used to facilitate confiscation of handguns in great britain, many semi auto rifles in california, NJ and NYC and massive numbers of weapons in Australia

    what libs want is an onerous system that many will ignore and then the gun haters will claim those people are criminals deserving of getting "vicki weaverd" or Waco'd

    Gun haters are haters pure and simple. They hate freedom, and they especially hate people who don't buy into their idiotic world view



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