View Poll Results: What are reasonable restrictions/infringements on 1st and second amendment rights?

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  • A license/permit required to exercise certain or all 1st amendment rights

    6 15.79%
  • A license/permit required to exercise certain or all 2nd amendment rights

    22 57.89%
  • Registration requirement of some or all of your books and other 1st amendment related things

    2 5.26%
  • Registration requirement of some or all of your firearms and other weapons.

    30 78.95%
  • A ban on certain books,religions, what the press can report and etc.

    3 7.89%
  • A ban on certain weapons.

    24 63.16%
  • A ban on certain individuals from exercising 1st amendment rights

    3 7.89%
  • A ban on certain individuals form exercising 2nd amendment rights

    17 44.74%
  • A total ban on 1st amendment rights

    2 5.26%
  • A total ban on 2nd amendment rights

    3 7.89%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: What are reasonable restrictions/infringements on 1st and second amendment rights?

  1. #121
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: What are reasonable restrictions/infringements on 1st and second amendment rights

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    The people who emote on this issue just make stuff up based on how they feel. Your point is based on logic and the law, his is based on psychobabbling emotofactoids
    Not surpisingly, I do not expect a reasoned response.

  2. #122
    Anti-Hypocrite
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    Re: What are reasonable restrictions/infringements on 1st and second amendment rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Given the constitutional basis for the former, what is your argument for the latter?

    Same question

    Same question.

    How about a required course in relevant subject matter for journalists? Voters? Church goers?
    Why not?
    You can't make an apples to apples comparison between the first and second amendments. They simply don't match up that way, and trying to make them is like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.
    If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.

    If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

  3. #123
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: What are reasonable restrictions/infringements on 1st and second amendment rights

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    You can't make an apples to apples comparison between the first and second amendments.
    Both are fundamental, constitutional rights, and so both are afforded the beneft of strict scrutiny when judging permissible restrictions.
    Thus, Apples and apples.

    The restrictions on 'free speech' are all based on actions that directly cause harm to others, or place others in a condition of slear, present and immediate danger. This is based on the concept that your rights end when they affect the rights of others.

    So, again, given the constitutional basis for the formers, what are your argument for the lattesr?

    They simply don't match up that way, and trying to make them is like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.
    Support this with something meaningful.
    Last edited by Goobieman; 04-02-10 at 11:07 AM.

  4. #124
    Student Pal's Avatar
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    Re: What are reasonable restrictions/infringements on 1st and second amendment rights

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I know how to debate--I won a few major titles in college--and I also know what diversionary tactics are. you are a newbie I have never heard of and it is you who have to establish yourself for me to take you seriously. What I stated is well known to anyone in the field. GIYLF


    In other words you can't produce the evidence to back up your claims? I may have joined recently, but at least I don't make vague references to studies and refuse to provide a single link.

  5. #125
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    Re: What are reasonable restrictions/infringements on 1st and second amendment rights

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I know how to debate--I won a few major titles in college--and I also know what diversionary tactics are.
    You sure do know what they are - your using one yourself.

    Supporting your own argument is the first rule of debate. So either you didn't really debate in college, or you are deliberately being a bad debater.

  6. #126
    warrior of the wetlands
    TurtleDude's Avatar
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    Re: What are reasonable restrictions/infringements on 1st and second amendment rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Pal View Post


    In other words you can't produce the evidence to back up your claims? I may have joined recently, but at least I don't make vague references to studies and refuse to provide a single link.
    Nope,I have read the studies dozens of times. Some were suppressed by the Clinton administration as was the study Reno conducted of police about the awb-when 88% of the police were opposed to the clinton gun ban that study was 86'd rather quickly. Having been counsel to a major NRA club, a class two manufacturer and an attorney involved on the legal issues involving gun ownerships I read thousands of reports, law review articles. Do you have any proof of what I am saying is wrong. I am a court certified expert on the subject

    and frankly I couldn't care less if you believe me or not. If you can disprove what I say feel free to do it but I highly suspect you cannot come close.

    Consider what I say expert opinion-as I said feel free to find someone who has an emperical disagreement with what I said when I stated cops are more likely to miss bad guys than non LEO civilians and more likely to hit innocent people

    Here is one such citation to what I have said

    In confrontational shootings, studies show police hit their targets between 13 percent and 25 percent of the time. Of the incidents analyzed in this study, civilians hit their targets 84 percent of the time. This comparison does not account for the number of shots fired, only hits or misses. Nevertheless, it gives us a statistical basis to refute claims that only police should have firearms or that civilian shooters are largely ineffective in emergencies

    Who Is The Armed Citizen? :The Armed Citizen



  7. #127
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    Re: What are reasonable restrictions/infringements on 1st and second amendment rights

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Nope,I have read the studies dozens of times. Some were suppressed by the Clinton administration as was the study Reno conducted of police about the awb-when 88% of the police were opposed to the clinton gun ban that study was 86'd rather quickly. Having been counsel to a major NRA club, a class two manufacturer and an attorney involved on the legal issues involving gun ownerships I read thousands of reports, law review articles. Do you have any proof of what I am saying is wrong. I am a court certified expert on the subject

    and frankly I couldn't care less if you believe me or not. If you can disprove what I say feel free to do it but I highly suspect you cannot come close.
    This ridiculous response makes it pretty clear you did not win any debate contests. You would be laughed out of one with this stuff. You're committing the lamest of logical fallacies. Pathetic.

  8. #128
    Klattu Verata Nicto
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    Re: What are reasonable restrictions/infringements on 1st and second amendment rights

    The only two things I can see as reasonable for firearms would be an inexpensive federal license for full automatics, no registration of those arms and psych/safety testing, and that violent felony offenders must be cleared legally to own firearms. On speech, nothing is banned which poses no dangers to the public, we can fight out those details individually.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  9. #129
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    Re: What are reasonable restrictions/infringements on 1st and second amendment rights

    The Second Amendment reads: A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

    The word "regulated" actually appears in the text of the second amendment, but yet the gun freaks and gun makers and sellers say it is unconstitutional to "regulate" anything when it comes to guns. Once more, I believe a few on the fringe are leading the country around by the nose.

  10. #130
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    Re: What are reasonable restrictions/infringements on 1st and second amendment rights

    Quote Originally Posted by jacksbrat View Post
    The Second Amendment reads: A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

    The word "regulated" actually appears in the text of the second amendment, but yet the gun freaks and gun makers and sellers say it is unconstitutional to "regulate" anything when it comes to guns. Once more, I believe a few on the fringe are leading the country around by the nose.
    "Regulated" refers to militia and most probably refers to making the militia well ordered.

    The Constitution is not a word search. Context matters.

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