View Poll Results: What are reasonable restrictions/infringements on 1st and second amendment rights?

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  • A license/permit required to exercise certain or all 1st amendment rights

    6 15.79%
  • A license/permit required to exercise certain or all 2nd amendment rights

    22 57.89%
  • Registration requirement of some or all of your books and other 1st amendment related things

    2 5.26%
  • Registration requirement of some or all of your firearms and other weapons.

    30 78.95%
  • A ban on certain books,religions, what the press can report and etc.

    3 7.89%
  • A ban on certain weapons.

    24 63.16%
  • A ban on certain individuals from exercising 1st amendment rights

    3 7.89%
  • A ban on certain individuals form exercising 2nd amendment rights

    17 44.74%
  • A total ban on 1st amendment rights

    2 5.26%
  • A total ban on 2nd amendment rights

    3 7.89%
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Thread: What are reasonable restrictions/infringements on 1st and second amendment rights?

  1. #111
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: What are reasonable restrictions/infringements on 1st and second amendment rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    I'm an ex-cop, and I also teach defensive handgunning to non-LE citizens, and I back up what Turtledude said.

    As for why? Most cops are working their butts off and making lousy pay. Most of their departments have limited training budgets, and lavish most of it on their special teams like SWAT.

    By the time they get off-shift, the average LE just *might* have enough time and energy left to hit the weightroom for 30 minutes. If he wants extra practice (other than annual quals) with his firearm he will shell for the ammo out of his own pocket... try explaining to the missus that you're not taking her out to dinner this week because you spent the money on ammo.

    Contrariwise a lot of armed citizens, particularly of the CCW variety, are very dedicated shooters as a hobby and pastime, and many of them can afford to shell out the big bucks to get training time with the likes of Ken Hackathorne.

    Having been in Law Enforcement, I am here to tell you that having a badge does not magically make you more competent with a gun than Joe Citizen, nor endow you with magically superior judgment or other superpowers.
    Ken Hackathorne-one of the best

    My favorite, John Benner and David Bowie (the swat guy and gunsmith not the rock singer) of the Tactical Defense Institute. I also was a guest instructor for Mas Ayoob's LFI many years ago. His stuff is very good on the legal aspects. John and David teach house clearing at the highest levels.

    Some of my friends swore by Clint Smith or John Farnham as well. All are really good



  2. #112
    Student Pal's Avatar
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    Re: What are reasonable restrictions/infringements on 1st and second amendment rights

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I had a copy at work for years

    do you know how to use google?
    Do you know how to debate?

    I'm not saying I don't believe you. I just want to see specifically what you are referring to, the odds of me finding the specific study you're talking about just by typing random words into Google are slim, and even if I found it I wouldn't know it.

    When you reference a source in a debate you have to provide that source if you expect it to be taken seriously.

  3. #113
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    Re: What are reasonable restrictions/infringements on 1st and second amendment rights

    The Second Amendment reads: A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

    From this, the NRA and gun lobists have led the country to believe that it's the constitutional right of any Tom Dick and Harry to buy as many guns as they please. Hmmmm. Seems they read the constitution the way wealthy preachers read their bible. They read the parts they like and ignore the rest.

  4. #114
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    Re: What are reasonable restrictions/infringements on 1st and second amendment rights

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    What are reasonable restrictions/infringements on 1st and second amendment rights?

    (some options may be slightly modified to fit in the poll.)

    A license/permit required to exercise certain or all 1st amendment rights

    A license/permit required to exercise certain or all 2nd amendment rights

    Registration requirement of some or all of your books,newspaper and other 1st amendment related things

    Registration requirement of some or all of your firearms and other weapons.

    A ban on certain books,religions, what the press can report and etc.

    A ban on certain weapons.

    A ban on certain individuals from exercising 1st amendment rights

    A ban on certain individuals form exercising 2nd amendment rights

    A total ban on 1st amendment rights

    A total ban on 2nd amendment rights
    I support a ban on certain weapons, and it should include those which go well beyond the means of self-defense.

    As for the rest... First Amendment rights are already restricted in the U.S. when it comes to prisoners. Their letters are censored and they are not allowed to say certain things within the confines of penitentiaries, especially if they are within the walls of a privately run prison, even though the public sector sent them there.

    Judges issue gag orders all the time, often at the behest of corporations that have billions of dollars in assets and can afford expert legal teams to petition the judicial system for its support in silencing dissent.

    Freedom of assembly... this is circumvented with restraining orders. You don't have the right to assemble with whomever you please if a court says you are not allowed to meet with such and such person.

    Cities issue permits for protests all the time, even though protesting falls under the first amendment. If you don't have a permit, you cannot march.

    Essentially, anything deemed a "security risk" can have most rights in the constitution ignored for the sake of the greater public. The key here is a government that is both wise and responsible in honoring the truly necessary cases, and I feel, in the year 2010, that most governments are experts at working around stated constitutional rights. The courts and the media are their accomplices in this.

    In this era, with enough money, enough lobbying, enough lawyers, and enough propaganda, most rights can be violated with relative ease.

  5. #115
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    Re: What are reasonable restrictions/infringements on 1st and second amendment rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Pal View Post
    Do you know how to debate?

    I'm not saying I don't believe you. I just want to see specifically what you are referring to, the odds of me finding the specific study you're talking about just by typing random words into Google are slim, and even if I found it I wouldn't know it.

    When you reference a source in a debate you have to provide that source if you expect it to be taken seriously.
    Whenever someone pulls this lame stunt, I simply tell them that I did look, and no such study exists. Then they are back to supporting their argument in order to prove I'm wrong. Works most of the time, except for the truly lazy ones.

  6. #116
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: What are reasonable restrictions/infringements on 1st and second amendment rights

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    That's okay, such as holding a public gathering or assembly so as not to disrupt traffic etc.

    Yes, you should have to get a license to purchase a firearm.
    Given the constitutional basis for the former, what is your argument for the latter?
    No, this one's ridiculous.

    Yes, you should have to register any firearms you own
    Same question
    Yes, banning certain uses of the first amendment (shouting 'fire' in a crowded theater and the like) are acceptable.

    Yes. Many weapons should remain in the hands of the military/police only
    Same question.
    Also acceptable. Convicted felons and people who can't pass a basic gun safety course are the first to come to mind.
    How about a required course in relevant subject matter for journalists? Voters? Church goers?
    Why not?

  7. #117
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    Re: What are reasonable restrictions/infringements on 1st and second amendment rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Pal View Post
    Do you know how to debate?

    I'm not saying I don't believe you. I just want to see specifically what you are referring to, the odds of me finding the specific study you're talking about just by typing random words into Google are slim, and even if I found it I wouldn't know it.

    When you reference a source in a debate you have to provide that source if you expect it to be taken seriously.
    I know how to debate--I won a few major titles in college--and I also know what diversionary tactics are. you are a newbie I have never heard of and it is you who have to establish yourself for me to take you seriously. What I stated is well known to anyone in the field. GIYLF



  8. #118
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: What are reasonable restrictions/infringements on 1st and second amendment rights

    Quote Originally Posted by jacksbrat View Post
    The Second Amendment reads: A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

    From this, the NRA and gun lobists have led the country to believe that it's the constitutional right of any Tom Dick and Harry to buy as many guns as they please. Hmmmm. Seems they read the constitution the way wealthy preachers read their bible. They read the parts they like and ignore the rest.
    what part of the constitution delegates to the federal government the power to prevent every Tom Dick and Harry the ability to buy as many guns as they want.

    You statists seem to labour under the delusions that we need a constitutional grant of a right when in reality it is the government that needs to demonstrate a constitutional delegation of a power

    Look it up-The concept of America was a limited federal government wielding only the powers specifically given it by the people and the several states



  9. #119
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: What are reasonable restrictions/infringements on 1st and second amendment rights

    Quote Originally Posted by jacksbrat View Post
    From this, the NRA and gun lobists have led the country to believe that it's the constitutional right of any Tom Dick and Harry to buy as many guns as they please.
    The court agrees - the 2nd protects an individual right, regardless of that individual's relationship to the militia.

    Given that, how can a limit on the number of guns you can own be Constitutional?

    Hmmmm. Seems they read the constitution the way wealthy preachers read their bible. They read the parts they like and ignore the rest.
    This is unsupportable.

  10. #120
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: What are reasonable restrictions/infringements on 1st and second amendment rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    The court agrees - the 2nd protects an individual right, regardless of that individual's relationship to the militia.

    Given that, how can a limit on the number of guns you can own be Constitutional?


    This is unsupportable.
    The people who emote on this issue just make stuff up based on how they feel. Your point is based on logic and the law, his is based on psychobabbling emotofactoids



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