View Poll Results: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

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  • Yes, this particular young man is a perfect example

    13 17.33%
  • No, never.

    39 52.00%
  • The justice system needs another alternative for extremely young, potentially dangerous offenders

    18 24.00%
  • Other, please explain

    5 6.67%
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Thread: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

  1. #51
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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by emdash View Post
    the plot thickens?

    Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

    He also discussed the issues of the nature of the crime and of premeditation: "The evidence presented by the commonwealth showed that the victim, Kenzie Marie Houk, 8 1/2 months pregnant, was in bed at the time she was murdered. She was totally defenseless at the time her life and the life of her unborn fetus was taken by a shotgun blast to the back of her head. There is no indication of any provocation by the victim that led to her killing."

    ...The judge said the evidence indicated that "the commission of the crime demonstrated a degree of criminal sophistication" on the part of the boy, and that the offense was "necessarily premeditated."

    Thank you, now I have some more data to chew on.

    If he's been shrinkologically evaluated and found to have known right from wrong at the time of the crime; and given evidence of serious premeditation and sophisticated planning... well yeah, we might be looking at a justification for trial as an adult, or perhaps a lifetime committment order, depending on his mental state.

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  2. #52
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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    While they need to be separated from society because of their potential to be a danger to others, they do not need to be punished because they have that inherent danger within them.

    Rather, they need to be secured and properly socialized in a controlled setting so that, if they can, they can live with other in society and, if not, remained secured while still being productive.

    I think that doing that would be less expensive than paying to put them in prison.
    I tend to think they need to be punished, though.

  3. #53
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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by Partisan View Post
    No, your scenario is an accident, he never intended to hurt anyone....

    Breaking and Entering is a felony in most jurisdictions, if I recall rightly.

    If you do something that results in an unjustified death, during the commission of a felony, you may be sentenced to death in many states even it wasn't actually murder.

    So, the point stands: it is a scenario that could actually play out that way, at least if the subject were an adult or tried as an adult.

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  4. #54
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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Thank you, now I have some more data to chew on.

    If he's been shrinkologically evaluated and found to have known right from wrong at the time of the crime; and given evidence of serious premeditation and sophisticated planning... well yeah, we might be looking at a justification for trial as an adult, or perhaps a lifetime committment order, depending on his mental state.
    It is pretty interesting. Other sources say he hid the gun in a blanket when he took it into the pregnant lady's bedroom.

    Anyhow it's not a simple crime of passion or an accident so I can see why he's being tried as an adult. The witness--pregnant lady's 7 year old daughter--is not the most reliable, so he might get off without a conviction.

    Edit: not a witness to the actual event, but a witness to him carrying a shotgun-shaped blanket through the house and later discarding the shells in the yard
    Last edited by emdash; 03-29-10 at 09:45 PM. Reason: clarification

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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by emdash View Post
    I tend to think they need to be punished, though.
    Punishment without treating the behaviors that cause that punishment does not end the behaviors that lead to punishment.

  6. #56
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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    Punishment without treating the behaviors that cause that punishment does not end the behaviors that lead to punishment.
    Unless the behavior that caused it is untreatable, or it is because of complete ignorance to social standards.
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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    Punishment without treating the behaviors that cause that punishment does not end the behaviors that lead to punishment.
    Punishment (imprisonment) would end the behavior (shooting people in the back of the head while they're asleep) that led to the punishment (imprisonment).

  8. #58
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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Our system is based on so much hypocrisy.

    We don't let children under 18 view "adult films" or smoke cigarettes because he believe their minds are not mature enough to handle it.

    Hell, we don't even let "adults" drink alcohol or gamble under they hit the age of 21 for the same reasons.

    Yet...he believe that children as young as 11 should be treated the same as adults in the criminal justice system.

    Where is the logic in that?
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

  9. #59
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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Our system is based on so much hypocrisy.

    We don't let children under 18 view "adult films" or smoke cigarettes because he believe their minds are not mature enough to handle it.

    Hell, we don't even let "adults" drink alcohol or gamble under they hit the age of 21 for the same reasons.

    Yet...he believe that children as young as 11 should be treated the same as adults in the criminal justice system.

    Where is the logic in that?
    So, what is your solution? This boy is likely a sociopath with a great potential for future destructive acts.

    Putting this type into the juvenile justice system will only turn him into a hardened criminal. Youth Authority Prisons are very rough places with gangs based on racial groupings, and violence. Then, these young people are released in their early 20s at an age when they are most likely to wreck havoc on society.

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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by emdash View Post
    Punishment (imprisonment) would end the behavior (shooting people in the back of the head while they're asleep) that led to the punishment (imprisonment).
    No it wouldn't. All it would tell him is that if he shoots someone again then he'll just get imprisoned again.

    And this is when you tell me, "Well, that's why we put murderers to death for killing other people so they won't pursue that behavior again and kill again."

    To which I will retort, "That may be the case, but 1) if we treated him properly for the first murder he likely would not have done the second and 2) your solution doesn't work for less severe crimes, such as professional burglary. If all we do is punish burglars for stealing things then all they'll do is steal things with the expectation of getting imprisoned. However, if we find the root cause of why they steal, which is likely because they are uneducated, unskilled, or feel they don't have any promising job opportunities, treat that, help them get educated, help them get job skills, and offer them fair and gainful employment then we take away their reasoning for further pursuing future criminal behavior."

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