View Poll Results: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

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  • Yes, this particular young man is a perfect example

    13 17.33%
  • No, never.

    39 52.00%
  • The justice system needs another alternative for extremely young, potentially dangerous offenders

    18 24.00%
  • Other, please explain

    5 6.67%
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Thread: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

  1. #391
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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by Flea View Post
    Kids are not stupid. They are very aware of right and wrong. My daughter is almost a teenage and she and her friends know exactly what is up. I asked them about this last night and they thought it was idiotic thinking that kids can't make rational decisions and that kids don't understand that shooting people is irreversible and wrong. We had a good discussion. I think that too many adults marginalize kids and treat them as little children far too long.

    Not too long ago, young teenagers were having and raising kids to be healthy and productive adults.
    LOLZ, I smell a double standard! On another topic, loads of people are telling me that, at age 16, I am physiologically immature, and incapable of evaluating risk and danger, because my brain is not fully formed.
    So which is it?
    I hate the idea of causes, and if I had to choose between betraying my country and betraying my friend, I hope I should have the guts to betray my country. E.M. Forster

  2. #392
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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by Leo View Post
    LOLZ, I smell a double standard! On another topic, loads of people are telling me that, at age 16, I am physiologically immature, and incapable of evaluating risk and danger, because my brain is not fully formed.
    So which is it?
    Both. The brain continues developing until 18. The logical part starts around 16 and ends around 18, in general. That does not mean that a 7 year old can't understand right from wrong at all. Most illogical mistakes that kids make are spur of the moment ones, and in boys more than girls.

    The bigger the issue, the more a kid can distinguish what is the right thing to do. Car theft, murder, rape, kidnapping. Kids almost never engage in this. Shoplifting, lying, teasing, drinking, taking a kids soccer ball. Kids engage in this. Cheating on a test. Why? Nobody is gonna die. Nobody is going to be in the hospital. Nobody is going to sue you for $50,000. Kids understand the big stuff. Can kids make a good decision about drinking? Most do. Many drink anyway.

    Most kids make good decisions. But most kids don't fully think things out. Kids that murder generally seem to be crazy, or fully aware of what they are doing.

  3. #393
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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by Leo View Post
    I'm not telling you anything like that. If you read my post again, you will find that I specifically used the term 'human consequences' as opposed to just 'consequences', or 'legal consequences.
    Perhaps I'm confused then. What exactly is a "human consequence?"
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  4. #394
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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelzie View Post
    Perhaps I'm confused then. What exactly is a "human consequence?"
    It's sort of like that thing that keeps us from trying kids as adults.

  5. #395
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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    It's sort of like that thing that keeps us from trying kids as adults.
    And that's sort of like a real definition. I googled "human consequence" and it appears to be a made up phrase. Which I have no problem with, but if I don't know the intended meaning there's not much I can reply to.
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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    It's sort of like that thing that keeps us from trying kids as adults.
    Why are you making so much sense today?
    Stop it!

  7. #397
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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelzie View Post
    And that's sort of like a real definition. I googled "human consequence" and it appears to be a made up phrase. Which I have no problem with, but if I don't know the intended meaning there's not much I can reply to.
    I know you are capable of nuanced thinking (unless you're like...eleven or something). Try thinking about what the word "human" implies and then put it with the word "consequence". There's your definition.

  8. #398
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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    I know you are capable of nuanced thinking (unless you're like...eleven or something). Try thinking about what the word "human" implies and then put it with the word "consequence". There's your definition.
    I was figuring it had to mean something else since sixth graders fully understand the consequences to humans when you kill someone.

    You still haven't provided my nicely worded and very sensible request for your objective (ie, not age) criteria on the dividing line between trying someone as an adult and as a child. Did you just come here to deliver snarky one liners or are you gearing up for an actual post?
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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelzie View Post
    I was figuring it had to mean something else since sixth graders fully understand the consequences to humans when you kill someone.

    You still haven't provided my nicely worded and very sensible request for your objective (ie, not age) criteria on the dividing line between trying someone as an adult and as a child. Did you just come here to deliver snarky one liners or are you gearing up for an actual post?
    Defining a particular age that is arrived at by establishing a baseline from the statistical means of a study and adhering to that age without deviation is the very definition of objective.

    What is subjective is looking at an eleven year old and allowing your emotional revulsion to his crime to dictate that all standards be abandoned in favor of balming your wounded expectations of how children should always behave by compounding the punishment with treating him as something he is not: an adult.
    Last edited by jallman; 04-11-10 at 02:05 PM.

  10. #400
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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    Defining a particular age that is arrived at by establishing a baseline from the statistical means of a study and adhering to that age without deviation is the very definition of objective.
    Okay, but what is that study based off of? What qualities do we was a society believe are present in an 18 year-old that we don't think are there in an 11 year-old? As far as I can tell, all the necessary criteria for declaring an adult competent to stand trial are present in a sixth grader. The only difference is that we want to hold on to our societal illusion that kids are wide eyed and innocent.

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    What is subjective is looking at an eleven year old and allowing your emotional revulsion to his crime to dictate that all standards be abandoned in favor of balming your wounded expectations of how children should always behave by compounding the punishment with treating him as something he is not: an adult.
    Emotional revulsion and my natural distaste for children aside, I'm the oldest of six and have two step-children that recently passed through that age. While I (thankfully) don't have as much experience interacting with children that age as say a teacher might, my interaction does tell me that they are completely logical and aware of the consequences of their actions on the world. Especially for something as heinous as murder. Experience is not an acceptable criteria for what court to try someone in, providing the person has enough experience to know that murder is wrong.
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