View Poll Results: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

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  • Yes, this particular young man is a perfect example

    13 17.33%
  • No, never.

    39 52.00%
  • The justice system needs another alternative for extremely young, potentially dangerous offenders

    18 24.00%
  • Other, please explain

    5 6.67%
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Thread: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

  1. #381
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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelzie View Post
    He's a murderer who understood what he did was wrong. There's nothing that objectively seperates him from an 18 year-old offender that can be used as a criteria for deciding what court system to try him in.

    I disagree. I think his age should be the only criteria they look at when deciding what court system to try him in.

    Looking at other criteria may be important with a 17 year old but an 11 year old?
    No way.
    That's just never gonna be OK in my mind.




    I would chat with her when I'm feeling particularly snarky, but I wouldn't ever call her on the phone.

  2. #382
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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by missypea View Post
    I disagree. I think his age should be the only criteria they look at when deciding what court system to try him in.

    Looking at other criteria may be important with a 17 year old but an 11 year old?
    No way.
    That's just never gonna be OK in my mind.


    Age is arbitrary though. I could say I think it should be 5 and that would mean just as much as you thinking it should be 21. We have to have a reason why we think it should be that age.

    Which is why I don't think it should be any age at all. Everyone develops at a different pace.
    be humble for you are made of earth; be noble for you are made of stars

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  3. #383
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelzie View Post
    I'm definitely of the punitive/incapacitation crowd.

    He consciously took two lives. He doesn't deserve his own. Plus, if you're so messed up that you're going to kill people while you're in sixth grade, I don't see that he'll ever be safe to live in the community.
    15 or so years ago carjacking became a federal felony and I sat in on a session with a 13 year old who was a co-conspirator in the first such case in our area. The 13 year old was fixing to rat out the leader of the enterprise and when asked why a car jacking he noted all they had was one or two shells for their one weapon (a sawed off single shot shotgun). He noted that the three of them (the head mope about 30 and another kid) wanted to do a drive by but rationally he noted that if they missed and only had one or two shells "we could get greased if the other MF had a piece"

    However, "you can do a jacking with even an empty piece"

    no one could dispute the kid's logic--and he was not stupid-his mom was a high ranking administrator in the large public school system and his father was skilled blue collar craft labor.

    we also figured when the kid got out of Juvi hall in about 5 years he was going to be a really serious badass with that sort of sociopathic attitude

    One of the agents half joking noted they ought to just cap him and save society a few dozen armed robberies and murders



  4. #384
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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    15 or so years ago carjacking became a federal felony and I sat in on a session with a 13 year old who was a co-conspirator in the first such case in our area. The 13 year old was fixing to rat out the leader of the enterprise and when asked why a car jacking he noted all they had was one or two shells for their one weapon (a sawed off single shot shotgun). He noted that the three of them (the head mope about 30 and another kid) wanted to do a drive by but rationally he noted that if they missed and only had one or two shells "we could get greased if the other MF had a piece"

    However, "you can do a jacking with even an empty piece"

    no one could dispute the kid's logic--and he was not stupid-his mom was a high ranking administrator in the large public school system and his father was skilled blue collar craft labor.

    we also figured when the kid got out of Juvi hall in about 5 years he was going to be a really serious badass with that sort of sociopathic attitude

    One of the agents half joking noted they ought to just cap him and save society a few dozen armed robberies and murders
    My point exactly. Childhood by and large is a construct of the Western world. We might think they're incapable of rational behavior. That doesn't mean they are.
    be humble for you are made of earth; be noble for you are made of stars

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  5. #385
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelzie View Post
    My point exactly. Childhood by and large is a construct of the Western world. We might think they're incapable of rational behavior. That doesn't mean they are.
    Once you got by the sociopathic nature of this kid his answers were as logical as a Joel Benjamin chess opening



  6. #386
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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Ummm ... just a thought - most eleven year olds would 'grease' me at a shoot-em-up computer game, and would probably do as well as me on a strategy game ('cos I'm five years older, and my reactions are probably slowing,) but I think I would have a much better idea of the real human consequences of killing someone. Logic is an important part, but not the whole of understanding. You need to have lived a little, and to have experienced things.
    I hate the idea of causes, and if I had to choose between betraying my country and betraying my friend, I hope I should have the guts to betray my country. E.M. Forster

  7. #387
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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by Leo View Post
    Ummm ... just a thought - most eleven year olds would 'grease' me at a shoot-em-up computer game, and would probably do as well as me on a strategy game ('cos I'm five years older, and my reactions are probably slowing,) but I think I would have a much better idea of the real human consequences of killing someone. Logic is an important part, but not the whole of understanding. You need to have lived a little, and to have experienced things.
    You're telling me a sixth grader doesn't know you go to jail if you murder someone? I find that unlikely.
    be humble for you are made of earth; be noble for you are made of stars

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  8. #388
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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelzie View Post
    You're telling me a sixth grader doesn't know you go to jail if you murder someone? I find that unlikely.
    I'm not telling you anything like that. If you read my post again, you will find that I specifically used the term 'human consequences' as opposed to just 'consequences', or 'legal consequences.
    I hate the idea of causes, and if I had to choose between betraying my country and betraying my friend, I hope I should have the guts to betray my country. E.M. Forster

  9. #389
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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    This 11 year old is being tried as an adult because he's that much of a danger to society. This 11 year old wouldn't do much time if he were tried as a juvenile.

    Hence: Prisons weren't necessarily designed to punish, they are there to protect society.
    'In Hoc Signo Vinces'

  10. #390
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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelzie View Post
    My point exactly. Childhood by and large is a construct of the Western world. We might think they're incapable of rational behavior. That doesn't mean they are.
    Kids are not stupid. They are very aware of right and wrong. My daughter is almost a teenage and she and her friends know exactly what is up. I asked them about this last night and they thought it was idiotic thinking that kids can't make rational decisions and that kids don't understand that shooting people is irreversible and wrong. We had a good discussion. I think that too many adults marginalize kids and treat them as little children far too long.

    Not too long ago, young teenagers were having and raising kids to be healthy and productive adults.

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