View Poll Results: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

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  • Yes, this particular young man is a perfect example

    13 17.33%
  • No, never.

    39 52.00%
  • The justice system needs another alternative for extremely young, potentially dangerous offenders

    18 24.00%
  • Other, please explain

    5 6.67%
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Thread: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

  1. #371
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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelzie View Post
    The brain continues to develop until the age of 25. Should we try a 23 year-old as a child?

    Brain development can't be the only standard.

    No, that's not what I said.


    Some teenagers will jump off of a cliff, head first, without ever checking to see the depth of the water.
    Why?
    Because they don't think!

    They don't reason well. They have extremely limited life experiences to pull from. Children and adults should always be viewed with that distinction. One is a child. One is not.


    I would chat with her when I'm feeling particularly snarky, but I wouldn't ever call her on the phone.

  2. #372
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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by missypea View Post
    No, that's not what I said.


    Some teenagers will jump off of a cliff, head first, without ever checking to see the depth of the water.
    Why?
    Because they don't think!

    They don't reason well. They have extremely limited life experiences to pull from. Children and adults should always be viewed with that distinction. One is a child. One is not.
    I know what you're saying. But if we can't use brain development as a criteria for deciding if someone is going to be tried as an adult or a child, what do you propose we use? I'll ask you the same question I asked jallman. I assume you agree that an 18 year-old should be tried as an adult. Why? What additional understanding does an 18 year-old possess that a 17 year-old doesn't?
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  3. #373
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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelzie View Post
    I know what you're saying. But if we can't use brain development as a criteria for deciding if someone is going to be tried as an adult or a child, what do you propose we use? I'll ask you the same question I asked jallman. I assume you agree that an 18 year-old should be tried as an adult. Why? What additional understanding does an 18 year-old possess that a 17 year-old doesn't?

    We (society) have to have a line somewhere that distinguishes a child from an adult. That's the line that was decided upon.

    I will tell you that I'm not completely convinced that 18 is the right number. If I made the rules the "magic" number would probably be 21.



    As far as a 17 vs 18 ....what does that have to do with an 11 year old being tried as an adult?

    Gotta admit I didn't read the whole thread so perhaps this conversation has moved on from the OP.


    I would chat with her when I'm feeling particularly snarky, but I wouldn't ever call her on the phone.

  4. #374
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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by missypea View Post
    We (society) have to have a line somewhere that distinguishes a child from an adult. That's the line that was decided upon.

    I will tell you that I'm not completely convinced that 18 is the right number. If I made the rules the "magic" number would probably be 21.



    As far as a 17 vs 18 ....what does that have to do with an 11 year old being tried as an adult?

    Gotta admit I didn't read the whole thread so perhaps this conversation has moved on from the OP.
    Well same thing then. Why 21? What level of understanding do you think a 21 year-old has that someone 20 and a half doesn't? There has to be some sort of criteria for this. Just picking numbers isn't something I can debate against. I can pick numbers too, but there has to be reasoning behind it.
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  5. #375
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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelzie View Post
    Well same thing then. Why 21? What level of understanding do you think a 21 year-old has that someone 20 and a half doesn't? There has to be some sort of criteria for this. Just picking numbers isn't something I can debate against. I can pick numbers too, but there has to be reasoning behind it.

    OK well, let's stick with what we've got and the story. An 11 year old being tried as an adult.

    What makes you believe that an 11 year old has the same brain, emotional, maturity, reasoning levels and life experiences as an 18 year old? I don't understand where you draw the similarities from.



    I would chat with her when I'm feeling particularly snarky, but I wouldn't ever call her on the phone.

  6. #376
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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by missypea View Post
    OK well, let's stick with what we've got and the story. An 11 year old being tried as an adult.

    What makes you believe that an 11 year old has the same brain, emotional, maturity, reasoning levels and life experiences as an 18 year old? I don't understand where you draw the similarities from.

    A sixth grader understands the difference between right and wrong. They know the consequences for murder. They will understand the trial process if it is explained to them. Given all that, why shouldn't they be tried as an adult? An adult that met all that criteria would be declared competent to stand trial.

    Most of your criteria (brain, emotional, maturity, reasoning levels and life experiences) aren't applicable to deciding what to try someone as. For instance, an 18 year-old and a 40 year-old wouldn't have the same brain, emotional, maturity, reasoning levels and life experiences. But most people think they should both be tried as adults.
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  7. #377
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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    It is a difficult question and calls into the debate questions concerning what the point of criminal punishment is--rehabilitation, punitive, revenge, incapacitation etc

    If you put an 11 year old in with adults (beyond say tax protestors and some white collar frauds) you might as well make it a life sentence because after a few years you will have created a viscious predator

    on the other hand, if some 11 year comes into my house in the middle of the night with a gun or a knife I am going to kill him just as fast as I would a 30 year old doing the same thing



  8. #378
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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelzie View Post
    A sixth grader understands the difference between right and wrong. They know the consequences for murder. They will understand the trial process if it is explained to them. Given all that, why shouldn't they be tried as an adult? An adult that met all that criteria would be declared competent to stand trial.

    Most of your criteria (brain, emotional, maturity, reasoning levels and life experiences) aren't applicable to deciding what to try someone as. For instance, an 18 year-old and a 40 year-old wouldn't have the same brain, emotional, maturity, reasoning levels and life experiences. But most people think they should both be tried as adults.

    What I'm saying is that an 11 year old shouldn't ever be in a position where he's tried as an adult. An 11 year old is a child.


    We have laws for juveniles for a reason. They're children. A crime doesn't negate that an 11 year old is a child in our society.


    .


    I would chat with her when I'm feeling particularly snarky, but I wouldn't ever call her on the phone.

  9. #379
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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    It is a difficult question and calls into the debate questions concerning what the point of criminal punishment is--rehabilitation, punitive, revenge, incapacitation etc

    If you put an 11 year old in with adults (beyond say tax protestors and some white collar frauds) you might as well make it a life sentence because after a few years you will have created a viscious predator

    on the other hand, if some 11 year comes into my house in the middle of the night with a gun or a knife I am going to kill him just as fast as I would a 30 year old doing the same thing
    I'm definitely of the punitive/incapacitation crowd.

    He consciously took two lives. He doesn't deserve his own. Plus, if you're so messed up that you're going to kill people while you're in sixth grade, I don't see that he'll ever be safe to live in the community.
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  10. #380
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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by missypea View Post
    What I'm saying is that an 11 year old shouldn't ever be in a position where he's tried as an adult. An 11 year old is a child.


    We have laws for juveniles for a reason. They're children. A crime doesn't negate that an 11 year old is a child in our society.


    .
    He's a murderer who understood what he did was wrong. There's nothing that objectively seperates him from an 18 year-old offender that can be used as a criteria for deciding what court system to try him in.
    be humble for you are made of earth; be noble for you are made of stars

    Serbian proverb

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