View Poll Results: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

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  • Yes, this particular young man is a perfect example

    13 17.33%
  • No, never.

    39 52.00%
  • The justice system needs another alternative for extremely young, potentially dangerous offenders

    18 24.00%
  • Other, please explain

    5 6.67%
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Thread: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

  1. #301
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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Well, that's one way, and it is used now of course, but it's a pretty lame one. It's still fitting these cases into the existing system instead of changing it.

    I think we should start by giving serious juvenile crimes punishment that doesn't automatically end at age 21, but still keeps them out of the adult system. And above all, it should acknowledge that these are still children and still need to have guidance to grow up, or else they'll just commit another crime and end up in prison anyway.
    You are talking about building a new prison system...one for transitional offenders...that age from 21 till whenever they are released...IF they are ever released...and that simply isnt going to happen. You cant hold a 23 year old in the same system with a 12-13 year old, just like its not very wise to house aa 12-13 year old with a 35 year old banger. We still have finite budgets and the prison system and dollars for rehab isnt going to increase. You have to be able to create something tolerable.

  2. #302
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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    You are talking about building a new prison system...one for transitional offenders...that age from 21 till whenever they are released...IF they are ever released...and that simply isnt going to happen.
    Why not?

    You cant hold a 23 year old in the same system with a 12-13 year old, just like its not very wise to house aa 12-13 year old with a 35 year old banger.
    So you create two new systems instead of one.

    This doesn't mean building new buildings necessarily, just converting existing ones.

    We still have finite budgets and the prison system and dollars for rehab isnt going to increase. You have to be able to create something tolerable.
    If we can keep juvenile offenders from becoming adult offenders, we'll save money on prisons instead.

  3. #303
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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Why not?
    So you create two new systems instead of one.
    This doesn't mean building new buildings necessarily, just converting existing ones.
    If we can keep juvenile offenders from becoming adult offenders, we'll save money on prisons instead.
    Get right on that. Attend many state budget meetings? You cant get taxpayers excited about increeasing taxes for education...you arent going to to get them excited about building a new system...even if it is converting old facilities you still have redundant admin costs that simply arent needed. Its ALWAYS easy when the answer is raise taxes and spend other peoples money. Its simply not necessary.

    You are looking to create something that doesnt need to be created. Try violent offenders as adults. Hold and rehab them in juvenile facilities that already exist. Have them psy assessed at 21 and if they have been rehabed and deemed safe, submit them for parole. If paroled...great...they keep their record (no juvenile expungement) but they go free. If not...they go to adult prison til they do meet a parole board and are deemed worthy of parole.

  4. #304
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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Get right on that. Attend many state budget meetings? You cant get taxpayers excited about increeasing taxes for education...you arent going to to get them excited about building a new system...even if it is converting old facilities you still have redundant admin costs that simply arent needed. Its ALWAYS easy when the answer is raise taxes and spend other peoples money. Its simply not necessary.
    Like I said, building a whole new system isn't necessary. Just make changes to the current one. It probably wouldn't require new taxes.

    You are looking to create something that doesnt need to be created. Try violent offenders as adults. Hold and rehab them in juvenile facilities that already exist. Have them psy assessed at 21 and if they have been rehabed and deemed safe, submit them for parole. If paroled...great...they keep their record (no juvenile expungement) but they go free. If not...they go to adult prison til they do meet a parole board and are deemed worthy of parole.
    Well, no, that's not quite good enough, which is the point of this thread. But we can make some relatively minor changes to this framework and get it done. Create a third category between juvenile and adult, with appropriate procedures in court and housing/services/whatever after sentencing.

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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Utah View Post
    It is not about the age, it is about the crime. Murder and such are not to be tolerated regardless of age. What the hell does age matter? What logical step is there that states that age matters in the damn slightest?
    Actually, it most certainly is about the age. The law makes a concession for minors that speaks to the fact that the minor is not fully in control of his or her self as they are developing morally, mentally, emotionally, and physically. The logical step is that rights are restricted and culpability is mitigated by this concession.

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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Place him in an age appropriate facility while he is being both held (punished) and rehabilitated (helped). Because maybe a 14-15-16 year old violent youth offender might continue to adopt survival techniques in an adult only facility that he might then take with him should he ever be paroled and BE that much more violent. How is that inconsistent? The sentnece would be the same...the difference would be where he is held as a youth.
    I can get down with that as long as he is tried as a juvenile and the goal is a rehabilitation. If, after he becomes an adult, he commits again, then the book can be thrown at him. No deviation from the standard.

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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    why place him in juvenile if they're trying him as an adult?

    semms rather inconsistent to me

    Because by law ... a juvenile cannot be house in the same facility as adult inmates.

    The judge who heard this case and decided to try the boy as adult is in for a rude awaking when this issue is appealed. He will soon have a federal foot up his ass.

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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    Because by law ... a juvenile cannot be house in the same facility as adult inmates.

    The judge who heard this case and decided to try the boy as adult is in for a rude awaking when this issue is appealed. He will soon have a federal foot up his ass.
    I also think the DA who decided to pursue this in the first place should have a recall vote coming...this was a clear dereliction of his duty to remain objective.

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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    I also think the DA who decided to pursue this in the first place should have a recall vote coming...this was a clear dereliction of his duty to remain objective.
    Oh... I agree with that. That prosecutor is after repuation points and a conviction rating... nothing more.

    It's time for him/her to lose his/her license to practice law.

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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    Oh... I agree with that. That prosecutor is after repuation points and a conviction rating... nothing more.

    It's time for him/her to lose his/her license to practice law.
    I don't think it's worth him losing his law license, but if I were a citizen in his district, I would have serious misgivings about the justice system and my apprehensions would start with a DA that thought it was a good idea to try a disturbed 11 year old as an adult.

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