View Poll Results: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

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  • Yes, this particular young man is a perfect example

    13 17.33%
  • No, never.

    39 52.00%
  • The justice system needs another alternative for extremely young, potentially dangerous offenders

    18 24.00%
  • Other, please explain

    5 6.67%
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Thread: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

  1. #271
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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    Here we go again.

    What objective measure can be used to determine the sudden and dramatic shift in how the system treats them?
    It's a freaking knee-jerk political overreaction that almost always starts in the prosecutor's office. It isn't objective at all.

  2. #272
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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    I don't know, maybe my problem is expecting black and white standards of application like forming a logical proof.
    It is expecting a bit much from an imperfect system. No reason not to fight for it though.

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    I have such a hard time accepting anything less than total objectivity and consistent application of the law in any degree.
    I can see that. I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing either.

    when it comes to crime and punishment maybe I am to disconnected. I have no sympathy for anyone anymore, even youthful offenders. I just feel nothing but tired.

    I don't know man, we have what we have and I am just not at odds with youngsters getting full treatment as adults in the case of certain crimes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  3. #273
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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    Here we go again.

    What objective measure can be used to determine the sudden and dramatic shift in how the system treats them?
    That is up to each state. If you want a standard don't look to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  4. #274
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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    It is expecting a bit much from an imperfect system. No reason not to fight for it though.



    I can see that. I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing either.

    when it comes to crime and punishment maybe I am to disconnected. I have no sympathy for anyone anymore, even youthful offenders. I just feel nothing but tired.

    I don't know man, we have what we have and I am just not at odds with youngsters getting full treatment as adults in the case of certain crimes.
    And I am totally against it, 100%...even in the cases where I feel like the little bastard should fry. But I think that cut and dry about every criminal issue. There is a standard of measurement of culpability and it is the standard applied to everyone regardless of social status, economic standing, color, race, creed or religion. That black and white measure is what leads me to detest hate crime legislation and trying juveniles as adults: the law should be dispassionate, totally objective, and blind to petty human emotion.

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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    And I am totally against it, 100%...even in the cases where I feel like the little bastard should fry. But I think that cut and dry about every criminal issue. There is a standard of measurement of culpability and it is the standard applied to everyone regardless of social status, economic standing, color, race, creed or religion. That black and white measure is what leads me to detest hate crime legislation and trying juveniles as adults: the law should be dispassionate, totally objective, and blind to petty human emotion.
    I have to agree. The juvenile system should handle juveniles, regardless of offense, who are under age 18. The adult system should handle adults. The end.

    If the juvenile system lacks the resources or jurisdiction to hold juveniles who commit serious crimes, we should address that deficit, rather than this hodgepodge mishmash of insanity that we currently have.

  6. #276
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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    And I am totally against it, 100%...even in the cases where I feel like the little bastard should fry. But I think that cut and dry about every criminal issue. There is a standard of measurement of culpability and it is the standard applied to everyone regardless of social status, economic standing, color, race, creed or religion. That black and white measure is what leads me to detest hate crime legislation and trying juveniles as adults: the law should be dispassionate, totally objective, and blind to petty human emotion.
    Unfortunately it is run by humans. So this can never happen.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  7. #277
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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Unfortunately it is run by humans. So this can never happen.
    I don't think believe that. We have created other systems that are unfettered by the taint of emotion.

    It's all about having a commitment to a standard and not allowing any deviation from it.

  8. #278
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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    If the juvenile system lacks the resources or jurisdiction to hold juveniles who commit serious crimes, we should address that deficit, rather than this hodgepodge mishmash of insanity that we currently have.
    That would be a good idea.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  9. #279
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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    That would be a good idea.
    That's what I fought for when I was a local. It was a...frustrating battle. By and large, adult systems are heavily funded and have a considerable degree of political clout. Juvenile systems aren't and don't. Legislators don't understand the differences and want to be seen to be "doing something" about crime. It was much like banging my head repeatedly into a brick wall.

    And, when our efforts in my state resulted in a significant infusion of resources into the juvenile justice system, including funds to build several new detention facilities to replace our outdated/overcrowded centers, I was seen as someone who wanted to punish and lock up juveniles.

    There is really no winning in this particular battle, but some things are worth fighting...just because they are the right thing to do.
    Last edited by Catz Part Deux; 04-06-10 at 05:32 PM.

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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    I don't think believe that. We have created other systems that are unfettered by the taint of emotion.

    It's all about having a commitment to a standard and not allowing any deviation from it.
    Not true, anything we touch is affected.

    Go sit in a courtroom for any length of time and watch what happens. It is nothing but emotion from the States Attorney who was divorced and now has a vendetta, to the police officer who was picked on in high school and lashes out at society as a whole right up to the judge who has political ambition.

    No, everything about our system runs around and is fueled by human emotion.

    It will always be a part of everything we touch.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 04-06-10 at 05:33 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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