View Poll Results: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

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  • Yes, this particular young man is a perfect example

    13 17.33%
  • No, never.

    39 52.00%
  • The justice system needs another alternative for extremely young, potentially dangerous offenders

    18 24.00%
  • Other, please explain

    5 6.67%
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Thread: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

  1. #221
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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    No, you are being emotional because you are devolving to petty game playing and begging proof of psychic powers...rhetorically of course.
    Then don't put forth my perspective like you know what I am thinking. You don't.

    Has nothing to do with being emotional. Don't put words or attitudes into my mouth when you have no clue.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 04-06-10 at 04:30 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Does the child have presence of mind to know beyond a reasonable doubt right from wrong? According to the article he does.

    Can he be rehabilitated? According to the psychiatrist he can not. Probably a sociopath.

    Was it premeditated? All the evidence points to yes, he made a plan and had time to reconsider.

    Again my decision is based on the limited facts we have available and not emotion as you would try to project on me.
    The problem is that the laws, as they currently stand, are a knee-jerk reaction to the high juvenile crime wave that hit in the late 1980s (most likely correlated to the upswing in gang activity nationwide). They have little basis in current research on adolescent neurological development, and they also were enacted in a vacuum of knowledge about what was available in adult correctional settings to deal with violent juvenile offenders.

    In short, they're bad laws. That's what Jall is reacting to.

    If this juvenile is a sociopath, the best setting for him in virtually every state I've ever worked in would STILL be a secure juvenile facility. In most states, he can be held for 10 years. Prior to release, he should be evaluated by the youth corrections authority in that state, and his parole should be transferred to adult authorities, if possible, with strict parole requirements. There are multiple ways to handle this case without referring it to the adult system, almost all of which are a better alternative than sending a fifth grader to an adult prison which is ill-equipped to handle him.

  3. #223
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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Then don't put forth my perspective like you know what I am thinking. You don't.
    Then don't present your perspective so emotionally.

  4. #224
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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    You're correct, that is a fair position to take but I still have to question whether blurring the lines of objectivity in the law that much is a good idea or not.
    I know this wont matter to you...but...

    ...if you had known '******' you might think otherwise. And there are unfortunately a lot of kids like ****** out there. ****** was 9 when he got STARTED. He was 14 when he got sent to a secure facility. He was 21 when he got let out. He was 22 (and 4 rape victims later) when he got sent back. He will likely serve 7...maybe 12 of the 14 years he was sentenced. He WILL reoffend.

    Look...I know thats anecdotal...****** is real but he could be any of a whole lot of them (tho probably a relatively small number compared to the non-violent offenders...right?). To just fabricate an arbitrary set of rules and judgements based on an ideology is dangerous. Thats why they have hearings to determine if a child CAN or SHOULD be tried as an adult.

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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    Then don't present your perspective so emotionally.
    Another lie.

    I have not.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    Then don't present your perspective so emotionally.
    Warning: IMPENDING BITCH FIGHT


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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Good thing for us the law is clear.
    Actually, the law ISN'T that clear, else this disagreement would not be happening. Your cherry picking of what case law applies to your argument does not clarify your emotion clouded lense for anyone but you.

  8. #228
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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    But doesn't that experience tell you that these kids need rehab rather than adult punishment? If an adult did any of those things, we would immediately move to medicate, sedate, and lock away in a criminal mental facility.

    Why is it different when kids do these things? Because they're kids who have had adults in their life fail them. There's a mitigation of culpability on that fact alone.
    My experience tells me that regardless of what they NEED MANY CHOOSE NOT to BE rehabbed. And many are for whatever reason incapable. And in those cases...do you want to be confined to a set of rules based on age?

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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    ...if you had known '******' you might think otherwise. And there are unfortunately a lot of kids like ****** out there. ****** was 9 when he got STARTED. He was 14 when he got sent to a secure facility. He was 21 when he got let out. He was 22 (and 4 rape victims later) when he got sent back. He will likely serve 7...maybe 12 of the 14 years he was sentenced. He WILL reoffend.
    Actually, there AREN'T a lot of kids like ******* out there. Statistically speaking, juveniles whose first offense is a violent one at age 9 are a statistical anomally...the metaphoric needle in a haystack.

    Please stop exaggerating. You know *******. I understand that ****** is ****ed up. He is hardly a poster child for what should be done in juvenile justice.

  10. #230
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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    The problem is that the laws, as they currently stand, are a knee-jerk reaction to the high juvenile crime wave that hit in the late 1980s (most likely correlated to the upswing in gang activity nationwide). They have little basis in current research on adolescent neurological development, and they also were enacted in a vacuum of knowledge about what was available in adult correctional settings to deal with violent juvenile offenders.

    In short, they're bad laws. That's what Jall is reacting to.
    The laws are as recent as 2006. I don't think they were bad even if knee jerk.

    Yes he is reacting emotionally and lashing out while all the while saying I am emotional because I disagree.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    If this juvenile is a sociopath, the best setting for him in virtually every state I've ever worked in would STILL be a secure juvenile facility. In most states, he can be held for 10 years. Prior to release, he should be evaluated by the youth corrections authority in that state, and his parole should be transferred to adult authorities, if possible, with strict parole requirements. There are multiple ways to handle this case without referring it to the adult system, almost all of which are a better alternative than sending a fifth grader to an adult prison which is ill-equipped to handle him.
    We don't send juveniles to adult facility's until they are adults.

    So again it is irrelevant.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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