View Poll Results: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

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  • Yes, this particular young man is a perfect example

    13 17.33%
  • No, never.

    39 52.00%
  • The justice system needs another alternative for extremely young, potentially dangerous offenders

    18 24.00%
  • Other, please explain

    5 6.67%
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Thread: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

  1. #211
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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Oh I see.

    You are a mind reader and know exactly what I think and why. Well since you seem to know my mind better than I do lets play a game.

    What is my mothers maiden name?
    Irrelevant. You're starting to devolve into childish emotionalism now.

  2. #212
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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    No, I considered your argument and found it lacking.
    And this makes me emotionally knee jerking how?

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    Then stop being intellectually dishonest.


    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    No, I did not ignore it. I just found it irrelevant to the argument at hand so, no, you did not do this.
    This is a lie. You know this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    Irrelevant. You're starting to devolve into childish emotionalism now.
    Oh NOW I am being emotional because you suggest you know my mind better than I do?

    Hmmmm...
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  4. #214
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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    Well, you are. I dunno about Vance.
    Hell...Ive tried to be pretty fairly objective. I dont know the KID...and Ive suggested that if convicted he should be given the opportunity for rehab...and if he cant then he should stay where he belongs. How is that emotional?

    Ive seen juvenile offenders bite mouthfulls of meat of female guards forearms because they got careless and reached in front of them. These arent lunatic insane mental cases...they are violent children. Ive seen one kid bash in another kids head with an XBox. and on and on. Not ALL...but enough. And pardon me for not being emotional and thinking we should 'just' sentence them as juveniles because they are young.

  5. #215
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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Wow...did you pull that straw right out of your ass? Where did I say there were 'large numbers' of violent offenders under the age of 14? You make a total argument out of THAT??? My only assertion was that MOST violent offenders DONT rehab...and this particular one has been assessed as 'unlikely' to be rehabbed. Age is nothing but a number.
    You made the claim that you'd worked with hundreds of 12-14 year old sex offenders. I find that claim absurd, having worked extensively with a number of state juvenile justice systems, and having some idea of who is involved in those systems.

    The isolated juvenile sex offender population made up 1/3 of the population of the facilities I worked at.
    And of those, I suspect a tiny amount were under 14. Beyond that, a small percentage of juvenile offenders are sex offenders.

    The other two thirds were divided into court ordered O/A and juvenile incarceration. The ones that were there were in isolation because they were violent and dangerous to others.
    Yeah. I worked with those kids in the communities, in their homes and schools, before they were incarcerated. In some cases, I recommended that they be incarcerated.

    I disagree with its use...but that doesnt change the reality. Teach them 'what they are'. The recividism rate of violent juvenile offenders pretty much mirrors the adult population.
    Well, that's good. You'll be happy to learn that the recidivism rate of sex offenders is much lower than that of violent offenders.

    TYPICALLY they cant be rehabbed.
    Proof?

    In point of fact, the majority of sex offenders are not rearrested.

    CSOM Publications

    But hey...you got a little 'thanks' pop from your buddy...so it wasnt a totaL failed effort.
    I got a thanks because I spoke using data and evidence that I know how to handle, because I've worked in the field for almost 2 decades and I stay current on the research.

  6. #216
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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    And this makes me emotionally knee jerking how?
    Because there is no objective measure to your argument. It's all about subjectivity and relativism...two things I believe should not have a place in determining equitable application of criminal law.





    This is a lie. You know this.
    If that were the case, we wouldn't be having this disagreement.

  7. #217
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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Oh NOW I am being emotional because you suggest you know my mind better than I do?

    Hmmmm...
    No, you are being emotional because you are devolving to petty game playing and begging proof of psychic powers...rhetorically of course.

  8. #218
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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Hell...Ive tried to be pretty fairly objective. I dont know the KID...and Ive suggested that if convicted he should be given the opportunity for rehab...and if he cant then he should stay where he belongs. How is that emotional?

    Ive seen juvenile offenders bite mouthfulls of meat of female guards forearms because they got careless and reached in front of them. These arent lunatic insane mental cases...they are violent children. Ive seen one kid bash in another kids head with an XBox. and on and on. Not ALL...but enough. And pardon me for not being emotional and thinking we should 'just' sentence them as juveniles because they are young.
    Your personal anectdotes don't count as evidence to bolster a reasonable argument. Sorry. I've seen juveniles shoot other juveniles, sometimes to death. Two of my clients shot two people to death over a set of hubcaps. Several of my clients were tried as adults and served prison terms. Several are on death row.

    I have 5 times as much experience as you do, purely on the basis of longevity.

    I still provided evidence and research from the field to support my viewpoint that trying an 11-year-old as an adult is insanity. So should you.

  9. #219
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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Hell...Ive tried to be pretty fairly objective. I dont know the KID...and Ive suggested that if convicted he should be given the opportunity for rehab...and if he cant then he should stay where he belongs. How is that emotional?

    Ive seen juvenile offenders bite mouthfulls of meat of female guards forearms because they got careless and reached in front of them. These arent lunatic insane mental cases...they are violent children. Ive seen one kid bash in another kids head with an XBox. and on and on. Not ALL...but enough. And pardon me for not being emotional and thinking we should 'just' sentence them as juveniles because they are young.
    But doesn't that experience tell you that these kids need rehab rather than adult punishment? If an adult did any of those things, we would immediately move to medicate, sedate, and lock away in a criminal mental facility.

    Why is it different when kids do these things? Because they're kids who have had adults in their life fail them. There's a mitigation of culpability on that fact alone.

  10. #220
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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    Because there is no objective measure to your argument.
    Says you? Ummm So what?

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    It's all about subjectivity and relativism...two things I believe should not have a place in determining equitable application of criminal law.
    Ahhh so your opinion is some how more important then mine. I see.

    Well the law in this case is pretty clear in most states. Children can and are treated as adults depending on the circumstance, emotional makeup and the crime.

    This is the reality of the situation.

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    If that were the case, we wouldn't be having this disagreement.
    We are having this argument because AGAIN you are trying to turn a Grey area into an area you see as black and white.

    Good thing for us the law is clear.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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