View Poll Results: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

Voters
75. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, this particular young man is a perfect example

    13 17.33%
  • No, never.

    39 52.00%
  • The justice system needs another alternative for extremely young, potentially dangerous offenders

    18 24.00%
  • Other, please explain

    5 6.67%
Page 20 of 52 FirstFirst ... 10181920212230 ... LastLast
Results 191 to 200 of 519

Thread: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

  1. #191
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Redneck Riviera
    Last Seen
    07-09-11 @ 06:11 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    28,728

    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    I dont 'know' with certainty that he wont be rehabbed...I DO have a pretty good idea.

    4 years working with the juvenile justice system...300+ sex offenders and violent criminals...recidivism rate of 70%...programs designed to warehouse, not heal and rehabilitate...would you like me to continue? I COULD get very graphic about some of the things these 12, 13, and 14 year olds have done to their victims...and to fellow inmates...and to careless guards...

    The psychiatrist that interviewed him stated he felt it was highly unlikely the kid will be rehabbed.

    I have an idea...we'll slap him on the wrist (because he is only 12 after all) and then he can live with you and your family. have any small children in your home? Want to take that shot?
    I've worked with juvenile offenders for 19 years now. There are very few violent offenders (statistically speaking) under the age of 14.

    Juvenile Felony Arrests, by Age Group: 2008 - Kidsdata.org

    If you currently work with juvenile sex offenders, I find it disturbing and a little sad that you apparently haven't been exposed (or haven't taken it upon yourself to do research) on the latest data on teen and adult sex offenders.

    Frankly, you simply cannot look at an 11-year-old offender and definitively state that there is no hope for this person to not re-offend. If that is your view of these young people, you shouldn't even be working with them.

    There are certain modalities of treatment that have been shown to be effective with sex offenders. With any offender, there is a considerable responsibility on those in the system to assess that individual's risk factors and determine his/her level of risk to the community. One certainly cannot make sweeping generalizations that young offenders cannot be salvaged. That's ABSURD.

    Please do your homework. Here are some helpful links that deal with the research surrounding this issue and best practices.

    http://www.csom.org/pubs/treatment_brief.pdf
    SEXUAL OFFENDER TREATMENT: Timothy Fortney et al.
    Treatment of Adult Sex Offenders

  2. #192
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Last Seen
    02-16-11 @ 08:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    36,915
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    I've worked with juvenile offenders for 19 years now. There are very few violent offenders (statistically speaking) under the age of 14.

    Juvenile Felony Arrests, by Age Group: 2008 - Kidsdata.org

    If you currently work with juvenile sex offenders, I find it disturbing and a little sad that you apparently haven't been exposed (or haven't taken it upon yourself to do research) on the latest data on teen and adult sex offenders.

    Frankly, you simply cannot look at an 11-year-old offender and definitively state that there is no hope for this person to not re-offend. If that is your view of these young people, you shouldn't even be working with them.

    There are certain modalities of treatment that have been shown to be effective with sex offenders. With any offender, there is a considerable responsibility on those in the system to assess that individual's risk factors and determine his/her level of risk to the community. One certainly cannot make sweeping generalizations that young offenders cannot be salvaged. That's ABSURD.

    Please do your homework. Here are some helpful links that deal with the research surrounding this issue and best practices.

    http://www.csom.org/pubs/treatment_brief.pdf
    SEXUAL OFFENDER TREATMENT: Timothy Fortney et al.
    Treatment of Adult Sex Offenders
    But god forbid we let a little rationality, objectivity, and fact influence the discussion.

  3. #193
    Sage
    misterman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Last Seen
    02-09-12 @ 08:41 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    12,913

    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    Unless affected by some level of mental retardation, an 11 year old brain is fully aware of the conceptuality of right and wrong.

    This kid should be tried as an adult.
    If this is true, why don't we let 11-year-olds drive? Or vote? Or sign contracts? Or give consent to sex or get married?

    Because they aren't adults. And they shouldn't be tried as adults just because we arbitrarily declare a few of them to be adults every once in a while.

    If you want to change the age of adulthood, propose it. But it should apply to all crimes, and all other responsibilities and privileges of adulthood.

  4. #194
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Redneck Riviera
    Last Seen
    07-09-11 @ 06:11 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    28,728

    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    But god forbid we let a little rationality, objectivity, and fact influence the discussion.
    Just imagine if he was an illegal immigrant.

  5. #195
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Last Seen
    02-16-11 @ 08:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    36,915
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    Just imagine if he was an illegal immigrant.
    They'd have already hung him. After giving him 40 minus one lashes.

    I don't know...I just cannot fathom treating children and the mentally defective with the same laws we treat sound minded adults. It seems barbaric. Don't even get me started about Texas and the death penalty for retards.
    Last edited by jallman; 04-06-10 at 04:07 PM.

  6. #196
    Sage
    VanceMack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    54,674

    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    I've worked with juvenile offenders for 19 years now. There are very few violent offenders (statistically speaking) under the age of 14.

    Juvenile Felony Arrests, by Age Group: 2008 - Kidsdata.org

    If you currently work with juvenile sex offenders, I find it disturbing and a little sad that you apparently haven't been exposed (or haven't taken it upon yourself to do research) on the latest data on teen and adult sex offenders.

    Frankly, you simply cannot look at an 11-year-old offender and definitively state that there is no hope for this person to not re-offend. If that is your view of these young people, you shouldn't even be working with them.

    There are certain modalities of treatment that have been shown to be effective with sex offenders. With any offender, there is a considerable responsibility on those in the system to assess that individual's risk factors and determine his/her level of risk to the community. One certainly cannot make sweeping generalizations that young offenders cannot be salvaged. That's ABSURD.

    Please do your homework. Here are some helpful links that deal with the research surrounding this issue and best practices.

    http://www.csom.org/pubs/treatment_brief.pdf
    SEXUAL OFFENDER TREATMENT: Timothy Fortney et al.
    Treatment of Adult Sex Offenders
    Wow...did you pull that straw right out of your ass? Where did I say there were 'large numbers' of violent offenders under the age of 14? You make a total argument out of THAT??? My only assertion was that MOST violent offenders DONT rehab...and this particular one has been assessed as 'unlikely'
    to be rehabbed. Age is nothing but a number.

    The isolated juvenile sex offender population made up 1/3 of the population of the facilities I worked at. The other two thirds were divided into court ordered O/A and juvenile incarceration. The ones that were there were in isolation because they were violent and dangerous to others.

    The Samenow method (Im sure you know it...the wall...the mask...auto...etc...)or some form of it was used pretty much exclusively. I disagree with its use...but that doesnt change the reality. Teach them 'what they are'. The recividism rate of violent juvenile offenders pretty much mirrors the adult population.

    Now...if you can set your kneejerk response down for just a tiny second...go back to what I said from the beginning. TYPICALLY they cant be rehabbed. Ive not met THIS 11 year old, but the psych that assessed him found him incorrigible. And truth be told...Ive not met THIS kid...but I've met several of his twins. I HOPE this one can. I HOPE they all can. Ive seen some that DO change...some of the more horrific offenders. And Ive seen a LOT...the majority...that dont.

    But hey...you got a little 'thanks' pop from your buddy...so it wasnt a totaL failed effort.
    Last edited by VanceMack; 04-06-10 at 04:11 PM.

  7. #197
    King Of The Dog Pound
    Black Dog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    South Florida
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    34,516

    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    In other words, you want subjectivity to come into play when your revulsion eclipses your sound judgment. This is exactly the type of emotional response that the law attempts to restrict, especially when it comes to minors.
    It is pretty telling that you are going out of your way to ignore the bulk of my statements and take 1 or 2 out of context.

    I don't care one way or the other. I am going purely by the limited evidence we have at our disposal. What part of that are you missing? Why do you choose to ignore this? Do you want it to be some kind of emotional bull****
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  8. #198
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Redneck Riviera
    Last Seen
    07-09-11 @ 06:11 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    28,728

    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    You keep talking about the law as if you actually know something about it. of course...if it were against the law the state of Pennsylvania would not be having the discussion. And the OP was simply a poll as to if it is EVER APPROPRIATE.

    "Since the early 1990s many states have adopted a "get tough" approach to juvenile justice as a response to the increasingly violent crimes committed by children. As of 2003 many states had adopted legislation that permits more children to be tried as adults. All states have a provision allowing prosecutors to try juveniles as young as 14 as adults under certain circumstances. In some states, such as Indiana, South Dakota, and Vermont, children as young as 10 can be tried as adults.

    An example of a "get tough" law is Michigan's Juvenile Waiver Law of 1997. This measure lowered the age that juveniles can automatically be tried as adults. In adopting this law, the state has taken away some of the judge's discretion in deciding whether a minor should be tried as a child or as an adult. Factors such as criminal history, psychiatric evaluation, and the nature of the offender's actions carry less weight when the judge is forced to enter an automatic adult plea."

    Http://law.jrank.org/pages/7957/Juve...#ixzz0kLatLlTc

    Again...try KNOWING something about it before you try TALKING about it. And try experiencing a bit as well. It might shock you what some of these kids are capable of.

    Oh...and as for releasing them at 21...when you try a child as a juvenile thats typically the max you can hold them. With sex oiffenders the only additional penalty would be to force them to register for life as a sexual predator. The exception would be if they were tried and found guilty by reason of insanity or mental defect.
    Yeah. I was working directly with gang members when these laws passed. The problem is...legislators generally know very little about juvenile crime, and are responding in a knee-jerk fashion to appear as if they are doing something about a perceived problem. And, while juvenile crime was quite high in the late 80s-early 90s, it has since dropped by a considerable margin, for reasons that we haven't even been able to coherently explain yet.

    The problem is that adult facilities, for the most part, aren't adequately equipped to handle 10 year old offenders. It poses a safety risk to the young offender, and in some cases, to older offenders.

    Furthermore, very few juveniles commit violent crimes ALONE. The vast majority of juveniles arrested for felony offenses are arrested in the company of adult perpetrators.

    You're treating this subject in a very generalized and slipshod fashion that i find disturbing coming from a professional in the field of juvenile justice.

  9. #199
    King Of The Dog Pound
    Black Dog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    South Florida
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    34,516

    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    In other words, you want subjectivity to come into play when your revulsion eclipses your sound judgment. This is exactly the type of emotional response that the law attempts to restrict, especially when it comes to minors.
    It is pretty telling that you are going out of your way to ignore the bulk of my statements and take 1 or 2 out of context.

    I don't care one way or the other. I am going purely by the limited evidence we have at our disposal. What part of that are you missing? Why do you choose to ignore this?

    Do you want it to be some kind of emotional bull**** so you can justify your lack of argument?
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  10. #200
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Redneck Riviera
    Last Seen
    07-09-11 @ 06:11 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    28,728

    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    They'd have already hung him. After giving him 40 minus one lashes.

    I don't know...I just cannot fathom treating children and the mentally defective with the same laws we treat sound minded adults. It seems barbaric. Don't even get me started about Texas and the death penalty for retards.
    I feel the same way. It's just abhorrent to me.

Page 20 of 52 FirstFirst ... 10181920212230 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •