View Poll Results: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

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  • Yes, this particular young man is a perfect example

    13 17.33%
  • No, never.

    39 52.00%
  • The justice system needs another alternative for extremely young, potentially dangerous offenders

    18 24.00%
  • Other, please explain

    5 6.67%
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Thread: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

  1. #181
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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    It tells me that the judge that allowed it is just as emotional and mestrual as you about this case.
    I have given my argument based on logic and our law as it stands. You are trying to say we can't try minors as adults and we do it every day all over the country. This is a fact.

    The rest of your statement completely ignores modern case law and the new laws passed in 2006.

    You can't ignore the facts.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  2. #182
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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    See, here's another dishonest argument born of emotional reaction rather than clear thought. No one is suggesting he just be "slapped on the wrist". However, I do think that the law is meaningless if it isn't applied objectively and consistently in all cases.

    This whole "well let him live with you" is nothing more than an appeal to emotion, an attempt to break logic and objectivity by bringing personal fear into the argument.
    It is an in your face direct commentary to the people who bleed liberally without any THOUGHT...which is what you are doing. You might want to actually try being around some of these young people before you decide what their fate should be.

    You MIGHT note that my comments were pretty fair...give him a chance to be rehabilitated. If he is, give him probation. if not, keep him where he belongs. Making an arbitrary decision to hold him until he is 21 and then release him by mandate is idiocy. It is based on feeeeeeel good ideology. And I truly believe people like YOU should be FORCED to take in people like this young man.

  3. #183
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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    I have given my argument based on logic and our law as it stands. You are trying to say we can't try minors as adults and we do it every day all over the country. This is a fact.

    The rest of your statement completely ignores modern case law and the new laws passed in 2006.

    You can't ignore the facts.
    But I can ignore emotional kneejerk responses that seek to ignore objectivity.

  4. #184
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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    It is an in your face direct commentary to the people who bleed liberally without any THOUGHT...which is what you are doing.
    No, you're a libruhl.

    You might want to actually try being around some of these young people before you decide what their fate should be.
    You might want to keep your anecdotal evidence out of this as it has no place in rational debate.

    You MIGHT note that my comments were pretty fair...give him a chance to be rehabilitated. If he is, give him probation. if not, keep him where he belongs. Making an arbitrary decision to hold him until he is 21 and then release him by mandate is idiocy. It is based on feeeeeeel good ideology.
    Excuse me but exactly where did I say that we should release him at 21? Anywhere? A post number will suffice.


    And I truly believe people like YOU should be FORCED to take in people like this young man.
    And I truly believe YOUR beliefs don't mean JACK **** when it comes to the law.

  5. #185
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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    But I can ignore emotional kneejerk responses that seek to ignore objectivity.
    Please point out my emotional knee jerk reaction?

    I stated clearly we don't have all the facts. I stated my observance of the evidence says the judge is most likely correct in this instance.

    You are again projecting.

    I don't care one way or the other what happens to the kid, it will not affect me one way or the other. I do know as an X-LEO, you are trying to make something that is not cut and dry, cut and dry. You are ignoring the facts we do have. You are also ignoring the law and precedence set down in case law for some high reaching emotional ideal.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 04-06-10 at 03:07 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  6. #186
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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Please point out my emotional knee jerk reaction?

    I stated clearly we don't have all the facts. I stated my observance of the evidence says the judge is most likely correct in this instance.

    You are again projecting.

    I don't care one way or the other what happens to the kid, it will not affect me one way or the other. I do know as an X-LEO, you are trying to make something that is not cut and dry, cut and dry. You are ignoring the facts we do have. You are also ignoring the law and precedence set down in case law for some high reaching emotional ideal.
    I am ignoring nothing. The fact is, he's 11 and emotion is driving this rush to trample the objectivity of our legal system. Now you can sit here and taunt back "no, you're emotional", but that does not negate the fact that I am using an objective standard devoid of subjectivity and you are the one advocating blurring that line with subjectivity.

  7. #187
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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    I am ignoring nothing. The fact is, he's 11 and emotion is driving this rush to trample the objectivity of our legal system.
    This may be so I don't know, but it has nothing to do with my satements.

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    Now you can sit here and taunt back "no, you're emotional",
    Why? You ARE trying to say I am when emotions had nothing at all to do with anything I typed. Unlike you, I am looking at the evidence in the crime as well as his age as best as we have from the articles. I am not sitting here chanting "he's 11" as some kind of mantra.

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    but that does not negate the fact that I am using an objective standard devoid of subjectivity and you are the one advocating blurring that line with subjectivity.
    Say that ten times fast.

    No. I am advocating in this particular case according to the defendants state of mind and the evidence. The punishment should fit the crime.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 04-06-10 at 03:25 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  8. #188
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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    No. I am advocating in this particular case according to the defendants state of mind and the evidence. The punishment should fit the crime.
    In other words, you want subjectivity to come into play when your revulsion eclipses your sound judgment. This is exactly the type of emotional response that the law attempts to restrict, especially when it comes to minors.

  9. #189
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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    No, you're a libruhl.

    You might want to keep your anecdotal evidence out of this as it has no place in rational debate.

    Excuse me but exactly where did I say that we should release him at 21? Anywhere? A post number will suffice.

    And I truly believe YOUR beliefs don't mean JACK **** when it comes to the law.
    You keep talking about the law as if you actually know something about it. of course...if it were against the law the state of Pennsylvania would not be having the discussion. And the OP was simply a poll as to if it is EVER APPROPRIATE.

    "Since the early 1990s many states have adopted a "get tough" approach to juvenile justice as a response to the increasingly violent crimes committed by children. As of 2003 many states had adopted legislation that permits more children to be tried as adults. All states have a provision allowing prosecutors to try juveniles as young as 14 as adults under certain circumstances. In some states, such as Indiana, South Dakota, and Vermont, children as young as 10 can be tried as adults.

    An example of a "get tough" law is Michigan's Juvenile Waiver Law of 1997. This measure lowered the age that juveniles can automatically be tried as adults. In adopting this law, the state has taken away some of the judge's discretion in deciding whether a minor should be tried as a child or as an adult. Factors such as criminal history, psychiatric evaluation, and the nature of the offender's actions carry less weight when the judge is forced to enter an automatic adult plea."

    Http://law.jrank.org/pages/7957/Juve...#ixzz0kLatLlTc

    Again...try KNOWING something about it before you try TALKING about it. And try experiencing a bit as well. It might shock you what some of these kids are capable of.

    Oh...and as for releasing them at 21...when you try a child as a juvenile thats typically the max you can hold them. With sex oiffenders the only additional penalty would be to force them to register for life as a sexual predator. The exception would be if they were tried and found guilty by reason of insanity or mental defect.
    Last edited by VanceMack; 04-06-10 at 03:50 PM.

  10. #190
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    Re: Should an 11 year old ever be tried as an adult?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Again...try KNOWING something about it before you try TALKING about it. And try experiencing a bit as well. It might shock you what some of these kids are capable of.
    If googling a link constitutes "knowing" about something, then we're all experts around here.

    Let me make something very clear to you: you could be the congressman who wrote the law, but that doesn't mean jack ****. It's all anecdotal.

    And, as you pointed out, the thread asks is it EVER appropriate, to which my response has been a resounding and emphatic NO. That's what's been argued here.

    Now I don't give a flying rat's ass about your experience in the juvie system and it really doesn't amount to anything but anecdote when you speak about it. Give me some substance and rational argument and we might be getting somewhere. Other than that...save your breath.

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