Should the U.S. legalize drugs for Mexico's benefit?

samsmart said:

But that doesn't answer the question: Do you believe the U.S. should legalize or decriminalize drugs to reduce drug violence in Mexico?

Click to expand...

Mexico decrminilized drugs last year. How has that worked out for them? Has the cartel violence gotten better, or worse?

You have to ask what honey pot Caldorone has his hand in, if he wants to do something as stupid as legalizing drugs.

apdst said:

Mexico decrminilized drugs last year. How has that worked out for them? Has the cartel violence gotten better, or worse?

You have to ask what honey pot Caldorone has his hand in, if he wants to do something as stupid as legalizing drugs.

Click to expand...

I do not mean to play devils advocate but Mexico only decriminalized personal usage amount of drugs and they still try to get the individual take drug rehab or counseling from what I understand.

jamesrage said:

I do not mean to play devils advocate but Mexico only decriminalized personal usage amount of drugs and they still try to get the individual take drug rehab or counseling from what I understand.

Click to expand...

Granted, but the motivation for the idea was to reduce drug violence.

apdst said:

Mexico decrminilized drugs last year. How has that worked out for them? Has the cartel violence gotten better, or worse?

You have to ask what honey pot Caldorone has his hand in, if he wants to do something as stupid as legalizing drugs.

Click to expand...

While Mexico may have decriminalized drugs, they are still criminal here in the U.S., and State Department estimates say that 70% of marijuana and 90% of the cocaine that enters the U.S. flows in from Mexico. Mexican cartels aren't committing violence for control of the drug trade in Mexico but rather for control of the flow of drugs into the United States. U.S. consumption of drugs is what's fueling Mexican drug cartels. Cartels aren't fighting to make money off of drugs from other Mexicans but rather from Americans.

apdst said:

Granted, but the motivation for the idea was to reduce drug violence.

Click to expand...

I think the motivation was so that the police do not have to waste their time of petty drug users. I think only a few "lets legalize drug idiots" assumed it was to reduce violence.

samsmart said:

While Mexico may have decriminalized drugs, they are still criminal here in the U.S., and State Department estimates say that 70% of marijuana and 90% of the cocaine that enters the U.S. flows in from Mexico. Mexican cartels aren't committing violence for control of the drug trade in Mexico but rather for control of the flow of drugs into the United States. U.S. consumption of drugs is what's fueling Mexican drug cartels. Cartels aren't fighting to make money off of drugs from other Mexicans but rather from Americans.

Click to expand...

So, the cartels are going to start playing nice, just because drugs are legal in the United States? Somehow, I seriously doubt that.

I think that instead of the United States legalizing drugs, Mexico should look into a serious death penalty for cartel members. It's not our fault that they can't fight crime that is committed in their own country.

jamesrage said:

So what is the price range? I know when I used to smoke pot back in the 1990s a dime sack was $10, 1/8 was $20. half oz around $50-$60 dollars and oz was around $100-$120. What did the price drop down to in states with legalized marijuana?

Click to expand...

I did a little research and it is not as cut and dry as I made it out to be. In the dispensaries, they are not selling Mexican dirt weed. They are selling high-end hydroponic. It ranges from $300 - $700 per Z.

It has been about 6 years since I smoked and bought off the street. As I recall it was $40 for an eighth, $80 for a quarter. So that's like $250 for a Z with bulk discount. That was for the kind, not the dirt weed.

I think that prices will sort themselves out to: 1) eliminate organized crime from the smuggling, transportation and distribution of marijuana of all grades 2) promote the development of high-grade growers where current illegal growers will become legal, 3) collect taxes for the government.

One big reason is the government establishing legal distribution points. Who knows, perhaps they will sell dirt weed on the blue light special for $100/Z.

apdst said:

So, the cartels are going to start playing nice, just because drugs are legal in the United States? Somehow, I seriously doubt that.

I think that instead of the United States legalizing drugs, Mexico should look into a serious death penalty for cartel members. It's not our fault that they can't fight crime that is committed in their own country.

Click to expand...

apdst, we are we on opposite sides of this debate, I tell you!

The bottom line and what we should have learned years ago is the War of Drugs creates crime and criminal enterprise by keeping drugs illegal and challenging the free flow of the products. Criminal enterprises are created to smuggle, transport and distribute drugs. Making them legal eliminates all of that.

If Mexican gangs earn 60% of their revenue from marijuana, the rest from hard drugs, making marijuana legal will eliminate 60% of the cash flow. That will hurt them but not eliminate them. Ditto the US street gangs distributing pot.

I personally feel we should legalize all drugs to eliminate all criminal activity associated with them.

reefedjib said:

I did a little research and it is not as cut and dry as I made it out to be. In the dispensaries, they are not selling Mexican dirt weed. They are selling high-end hydroponic. It ranges from $300 - $700 per Z.

It has been about 6 years since I smoked and bought off the street. As I recall it was $40 for an eighth, $80 for a quarter. So that's like $250 for a Z with bulk discount. That was for the kind, not the dirt weed.

I think that prices will sort themselves out to: 1) eliminate organized crime from the smuggling, transportation and distribution of marijuana of all grades 2) promote the development of high-grade growers where current illegal growers will become legal, 3) collect taxes for the government.

One big reason is the government establishing legal distribution points. Who knows, perhaps they will sell dirt weed on the blue light special for $100/Z.

Click to expand...

So in other words legalization does not reduce profitability.

apdst said:

So, the cartels are going to start playing nice, just because drugs are legal in the United States? Somehow, I seriously doubt that.

Click to expand...

Most likely, most drug cartels would operate legitimate recreational drug companies to produce recreational drugs for Americans. They would also have to start competing with legitimate recreational drug companies here in the U.S. While some may seek other illegal activities to profit off of, I think most would go legit since it could operate with fewer costs in violence from both the government and other cartels.

apdst said:

I think that instead of the United States legalizing drugs, Mexico should look into a serious death penalty for cartel members. It's not our fault that they can't fight crime that is committed in their own country.

Click to expand...

But the crime in Mexico is being committed because of U.S. consumption of drugs. If the U.S. didn't consume drugs, Mexican cartels wouldn't provide them. But we do, for various reasons. And because keeping drugs illegal makes it a black market, the cartels decide the prices of those drugs. Because of this, the illegal drug trade is one of the few profitable trade that Mexicans have. Estimates say that the drug trade in Mexico earns $13.6-$48.4 billion annually. That money employs and provides for a large number of Mexicans.

Basically, Mexico has few sources of income from other nations. The two major sources of income that Mexico has from the U.S., it's most major trading partner, is labor and drugs. And those are the two things that many American politicians want to prohibit.

Mexican cartels aren't in the criminal drug trade because they want to be criminals but rather because it's one of the major sources of revenue they have flowing into their country. If they didn't trade in drugs, they wouldn't have any better source of income to provide for their people.

reefedjib said:

I personally feel we should legalize all drugs to eliminate all criminal activity associated with them.

Click to expand...

If we legalized all crimes there would be no criminals.

USA-1 said:

If we legalized all crimes there would be no criminals.

Click to expand...

Not all crimes are worth turning people into criminals over.

jamesrage said:

So in other words legalization does not reduce profitability.

Click to expand...

Perhaps not but it does eliminate the cash flow to the criminal enterprises. How big is the cigarette black market?

USA-1 said:

If we legalized all crimes there would be no criminals.

Click to expand...

What is the crime is consuming drugs? What is the ethical basis for it being a crime?

reefedjib said:

Perhaps not but it does eliminate the cash flow to the criminal enterprises.

Click to expand...

Legalization of recreational drugs here would opens up competition here in the US, it does not open it up in other countries. Unless you seal the border the cartels are still going to sell their goods and shoot whatever competition they can.

How big is the cigarette black market?

Click to expand...

I used to buy Russian Marlboro cigarettes from the internet around 6 years ago when my state enacted higher cigarette taxes. So I went to a cheaper source. Unless legal pot dramatically decreases in price it is not going to discourage the cartels and other groups from trying to profit from it.

reefedjib said:

What is the crime is consuming drugs? What is the ethical basis for it being a crime?

Click to expand...

The crimes are the manufacturing, sales, smuggling, murder, tax evasion and extortion associated with the drug industry. Consuming is the least of it. Most consumers(except pot) are addicts that have no control over their actions.

jamesrage said:

Legalization of recreational drugs here would opens up competition here in the US, it does not open it up in other countries. Unless you seal the border the cartels are still going to sell their goods and shoot whatever competition they can.

Click to expand...

Corona competes with Anheuser-Busch, but I don't see any breweries being bombed.

jamesrage said:

I used to buy Russian Marlboro cigarettes from the internet around 6 years ago when my state enacted higher cigarette taxes. So I went to a cheaper source. Unless legal pot dramatically decreases in price it is not going to discourage the cartels and other groups from trying to profit from it.

Click to expand...

Legalization of drugs is not meant to discourage cartels from trying to profit from drugs but rather to discourage cartels from using violence against each other, police officers, and bystanders.

jamesrage said:

Whats the price of marijuana in California and other states with legalized medicinal marijuana?

Click to expand...

What a silly way to try to bolster your argument that competition and price points will not effect cartels. These people are currently paying these prices in a quasi-legalized setting and as a result are not buying them illegally from cartels, your own argument defeats itself.

jamesrage said:

Legalization of recreational drugs here would opens up competition here in the US, it does not open it up in other countries. Unless you seal the border the cartels are still going to sell their goods and shoot whatever competition they can.

Click to expand...

The illegal trade will be a small fraction of what it currently is. Their cash flow will shrink by the billions. It has nothing to do with sealing the border.

I used to buy Russian Marlboro cigarettes from the internet around 6 years ago when my state enacted higher cigarette taxes. So I went to a cheaper source. Unless legal pot dramatically decreases in price it is not going to discourage the cartels and other groups from trying to profit from it.

Click to expand...

They will try to profit from it and they will make some sales but a fraction of what they do now. There will be a price war and the cartels will lose.

Most people will go to the legal dispensaries to buy.

USA-1 said:

The crimes are the manufacturing, sales, smuggling, murder, tax evasion and extortion associated with the drug industry. Consuming is the least of it. Most consumers(except pot) are addicts that have no control over their actions.

Click to expand...

Make manufacturing, sales, and exportation of drugs legal. Murder and extortion would decrease rapidly. Tax evasion would be the same as there is with any other industry. Include taxes on the drug industry to pay for public and private addiction treatment programs.

USA-1 said:

The crimes are the manufacturing, sales, smuggling, murder, tax evasion and extortion associated with the drug industry. Consuming is the least of it. Most consumers(except pot) are addicts that have no control over their actions.

Click to expand...

I asked specifically about the crime in consuming. Not the manufacturing, sales, smuggling, murder, tax evasion and extortion associated with the drug industry. I do not expect an answer that they are currently illegal therefore a crime. I want an ethical argument for why consuming drugs should be a crime.

reefedjib said:

Most people will go to the legal dispensaries to buy.

Click to expand...

I agree with this. I think that if drugs were legalized, companies would jump on it and they would create franchise businesses dressed up like McDonalds or Applebees to cater to recreational drug consumers and people would rather go there than to some kind sitting on the curb of the street, just like most Americans prefer to go to franchise restaurants rather than eat meat on a stick that's been sitting out all day from some vendor who got the meat from who-knows-where.

apdst said:

Mexico decrminilized drugs last year. How has that worked out for them? Has the cartel violence gotten better, or worse?

You have to ask what honey pot Caldorone has his hand in, if he wants to do something as stupid as legalizing drugs.

Click to expand...

This crap got solidly smacked down by several people in another thread. do you just deliberately ignore information that destroys your opinion?

here is just one of numerous smackdowns on this point that you still are determined to parrot:

RightinNYC said:

What kind of moron would have expected the decriminalization of penalties for possession of small amounts of pot to have a positive effect on violence between cartels that traffic tens of thousands of kilos of pot/cocaine/heroin?

The point of decriminalizing small amounts of drugs is to reduce spending on pointless prosecutions and, in Mexico's case, to prevent corrupt cops from shaking down small time users.

The two are entirely unrelated.

Click to expand...

marduc said:

This crap got solidly smacked down by several people in another thread. do you just deliberately ignore information that destroys your opinion?

here is just one of numerous smackdowns on this point that you still are determined to parrot:

Click to expand...

You post an opinion to support your opinion? Brilliant!!!

USA-1 said:

Securing our borders would go a long way to curtailing the Mexican drug trade, not to mention reducing ilegals.

Click to expand...

Not really.

It would just make the drugs more expensive, the business more violent, and the duties of the border patrol more dangerous.