View Poll Results: Should the U.S. legalize drugs for Mexico's benefit?

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  • Yes

    28 36.36%
  • No

    33 42.86%
  • Maybe

    1 1.30%
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    15 19.48%
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Thread: Should the U.S. legalize drugs for Mexico's benefit?

  1. #151
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    Re: Should the U.S. legalize drugs for Mexico's benefit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Binary_Digit View Post
    Oh yeah, that increase must have been due to decriminalization. I mean, there couldn't possibly be any other explanation, especially considering the other facts surrounding that snippet:


    So following drug decriminalization in Portugal:

    - Lowest EU rate of lifetime MJ use in people over 15.
    - More Americans have used cocaine than Portuguese have used MJ.
    - Lifetime use of heroin decreased decreased by almost 1%.
    - Lifetime use of all drugs among 7-9th grade decreased by almost 4%.
    - Deaths related to hard drugs decreased by more than 50%.

    But a slight increase in MJ use among 16-18 y/o? OMG that must be due to decriminalization. Forget these other facts, decriminalization must be responsible for the increase in MJ use among 16-18 y/o. There's just no other explanation!

    Cherry pick much?
    [/COLOR][/LEFT]
    You said drug use decreased in youth. The truth is, it increased in the 16 to 18 group. You were wrong. Why do you still deny it? Pathetic.

    How do they determine lifetime use in 7th to 9th graders in 10 years? Their lifetime is just starting.

    Lifetime use of heroin decreased by a whole 1%? Whats the margin of error? 5%?

    I would not trust any of their statistics.
    "This Administration will constantly strive to promote an ownership society in America. We want more people owning their own home. It is in our national interest that more people own their own home. After all, if you own your own home, you have a vital stake in the future of our country."" GWB

  2. #152
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    Re: Should the U.S. legalize drugs for Mexico's benefit?

    Quote Originally Posted by USA-1 View Post
    Of Course they do. But if pot were sold legally like beer, it would be infinitely easier for them to get and they would be smokin pot like they're drinkin beer now. Plus it's a lot easier to hide a joint then a twelve pack.
    Total speculation based on false/unclear assumptions. The majority of drug elasticity (the demand effect from changes in prices) is relatively high (pun intended) for the majority of users. The greater the drugs addictive properties, the greater this demand inelasticity. Lets consider legal cannabis: a much higher than normal inelasticity, but not in the same fashion as say heroin (highly addictive). More places selling cannabis shifts the quantity supplied to the right, there by decreasing the price yet (as the research shows) has an ambiguous effect on increasing quantity demanded due to the nature of demand for the drug. Of course there are income and substitution effects. Yet we need to analyze the specific policy in a more technical form in order to garner a quality cost benefit analysis of the two effects in question.

    Capitalism would take over the pot industry. Corporate farms and their labs would produce the most potent sh*t ever.
    Already accomplished. You see.... potency in the illicit drug market greatly reduces transaction costs associated with the sales and risk associated in that market. It is far more profitable to move 10 tons of 100% heroin than it is to move 20 tons of 50% heroin across borders. Once the initial transaction is achieved, another unintended consequence emerges as pushers will be more willing to "cut" the said drug with additives in an attempt to regain profitability. Regulation in the said market almost eliminates the risk of contamination, which has been highly linked to a vast array of heroin overdoses.

    You are thinking in the wrong direction. The novelty aspect is what you fear. Regulation has been very successful at eliminating the Marlboro man or Joe Camel. This is why regulation in this market would be key.

    It would be high quality and plentiful. It is easier to manufacture than liquor or beer and economies of scale would force prices to drop like a rock. It would be marketed like Coca Cola or Marlboros. It would be a growth industry kind of like a combination of the alcohol and tobacco industry.
    Have you considered the income and substitution effects on tobacco and alcohol? Both drugs have a far..... far greater negative impact on society than cannabis. Again, your cost benefit analysis does not follow logically.

    If they do legalize pot I will grow it in my garden and try to make a few bucks.
    But you are not an experienced pot grower and will most likely fail your ass off in your first attempt. Besides... If the price falls as you expect, consumers will be more likely to purchase it in stores that are far more efficient at "growing and tending to it" than your average pot consumer. Instead of spending time and money growing it yourself, they can find a job and purchase it for less than they would be giving up by tending to a garden as opposed to working a job.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
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  3. #153
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    Re: Should the U.S. legalize drugs for Mexico's benefit?

    Quote Originally Posted by USA-1 View Post
    You said drug use decreased in youth. The truth is, it increased in the 16 to 18 group. You were wrong. Why do you still deny it? Pathetic.
    Actually you are wrong for two reasons:

    1. That was my first post in this thread, so I haven't made any claims at all, much less the claim that drug use decreased among young people.

    2. Your post was in response to reefedjib's statement: "we have studies that show there is no appreciable increase in usage when decriminalizing or legalizing." You were trying to show that drug use increased as a result of Portugal's decriminalization measures and you failed by cherry picking one example out of several to the contrary, without showing why that exception was due to decriminalization and why that result is different from the others.
    Last edited by Binary_Digit; 03-29-10 at 04:11 PM.

  4. #154
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    Re: Should the U.S. legalize drugs for Mexico's benefit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hayekian View Post
    Yes, absolutely. Legalize heroin also to put Taliban right out of business.

    Not to mention ending the war on civil liberties here, and the massive social destruction that comes with making private tragedies a social one.

    Camille Paglia excoriated the baby boom generation one time for their craven cowardice in not just maintaining the war on drugs but escalating it. Here here.
    >>

    Actually, there's no logical reason for political daddyism in any part of our lives.

    Live and let live as long as no one gets hurt.

    ricksfolly

  5. #155
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    Re: Should the U.S. legalize drugs for Mexico's benefit?

    Quote Originally Posted by USA-1 View Post
    We already spend hundreds of billions on our military. We have the greatest military in the world. Use it and technology to secure the borders. Other countries do it.
    We are wasting our military resources. We are being invaded and it's time for the military to defend our borders.
    And even that can't cover our borders effectively without massive costs.

    Quote Originally Posted by USA-1 View Post
    There is no good that comes from alcohol, tobacco or illegal drugs except for the therapeudic qualities of cannabis. Pot should be legalized. I see no ill effects to society from it.
    Do you see the double standard?
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  6. #156
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    Re: Should the U.S. legalize drugs for Mexico's benefit?

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    Not to mention an incentive to make sure it isn't laced with something dangerous.
    Yes, like PCP for example.
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  7. #157
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    Re: Should the U.S. legalize drugs for Mexico's benefit?

    Quote Originally Posted by USA-1 View Post
    Of Course they do. But if pot were sold legally like beer, it would be infinitely easier for them to get and they would be smokin pot like they're drinkin beer now. Plus it's a lot easier to hide a joint then a twelve pack.

    Capitalism would take over the pot industry. Corporate farms and their labs would produce the most potent sh*t ever. It would be high quality and plentiful. It is easier to manufacture than liquor or beer and economies of scale would force prices to drop like a rock. It would be marketed like Coca Cola or Marlboros. It would be a growth industry kind of like a combination of the alcohol and tobacco industry.

    If they do legalize pot I will grow it in my garden and try to make a few bucks.
    Marduc already posted several stats showing how legalization doesn't necessarily increase usage.

    If pot growing/marketing were to be taken over by capitalism, that would be a good thing, wouldn't it? Private enterprise would be making money, not the drug lords. Moreover, it would be planted on private land, not on national forest/ park land as it is now, so the impact on the environment would be a lot less.

    Are you growing tobacco in your garden now? You might be missing out on an opportunity if not.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

  8. #158
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    Re: Should the U.S. legalize drugs for Mexico's benefit?

    Quote Originally Posted by LiberalAvenger View Post
    There is no way that meth will ever be legalized. It is probably the worst drug out there. I can't imagine a country full of tweakers.
    Most people don't avoid drugs like meth and crack, because they're illegal. They avoid them, because they're dangerous.
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  9. #159
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    Re: Should the U.S. legalize drugs for Mexico's benefit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Marduc already posted several stats showing how legalization doesn't necessarily increase usage.

    If pot growing/marketing were to be taken over by capitalism, that would be a good thing, wouldn't it? Private enterprise would be making money, not the drug lords. Moreover, it would be planted on private land, not on national forest/ park land as it is now, so the impact on the environment would be a lot less.

    Are you growing tobacco in your garden now? You might be missing out on an opportunity if not.
    Legalization of Alcohol did lead to increased usage.
    You have to compare cannabis to alcohol. After Alcohol was legalized and free markets took over, prices dropped, supplies rose, marketing was implemented and its use increased exponentially. It led to the creation of some of the largest corporations in the country and drinking as a national pastime. Why would pot be any different? Common sense says it wouldn't. Unless of course it was regulated to the point where bootlegging and smuggling would be profitable and then we would be right back where we started.

    The tobacco market is saturated at this point in time. In the early stages of legal pot there will be opportunity to make some money. As for knowing what I'm doing. I do know some people that are experts and it isn't rocket science.


    I do believe pot should be legalized, but I do not believe it will solve any problems and may lead to new problems, just like alcohol.
    Last edited by USA_1; 03-29-10 at 05:28 PM.
    "This Administration will constantly strive to promote an ownership society in America. We want more people owning their own home. It is in our national interest that more people own their own home. After all, if you own your own home, you have a vital stake in the future of our country."" GWB

  10. #160
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    Re: Should the U.S. legalize drugs for Mexico's benefit?

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    So my question is this: if U.S. consumption of illegal drugs is causing problems in Mexico, does the United States have the responsibility to legalize or decriminalize drugs so that Mexico loses it's black market as a drug supplier which will reduce drug violence in Mexico?
    Absolutely not.

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