View Poll Results: does the passage of landmark HCR legislation mark the end of the Reagan era?

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  • Yes

    7 31.82%
  • No

    10 45.45%
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Thread: The End of the Reagan Era?

  1. #31
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    Re: The End of the Reagan Era?

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    True, but what I liked about Reagan is that the buck stopped with him, and he made no excuses. When Iran Contra broke, he got on national TV, against the advise from all his advisers, and told everybody that it was his fault that it happened. You don't see that kind of taking responsibility from any of today's Republicans.
    The buck stopped with him on Iran/Contra after it became abundantly clear that the evidence of his involvement was overwhelming. Before that happened, he denied that there was any arms for hostage, or arms sales to Iran.
    His words, at a press conference, can be read here:

    REAGAN'S MEMORY ALSO FAILS. Reagan attended four NSC meetings, but he also contended that he knew nothing of illegal arms shipments to Iran and illegal weapons sales to the Contras. In November 1986, a Beirut newspaper broke a story which explained that American arms sales to Iran.
    A month earlier on October 8, 1986 Reagan was asked at a news conference: "Was there any United States involvement in this fight over Nicaragua -- carrying the arms -- any involvement whatsoever?" Reagan replied: "I'm glad you asked. Absolutely not. While they (three Americans, including Eugene Hasenfus) there is no government connection with that at all." Then after the Reagan administration acknowledged that the United States was selling weapons to Iran, Reagan stated on November 19, 1986: "To eliminate the widespread but mistaken perception that we have been exchanging arms for hostages, I have directed that no further sale of arms of any kind be sent to Iran." Reagan was then asked, "Didn't the United States condone shipments of arms to Israel and other nations?" Reagan denied this charge by saying, "We did not condone and do not condone the shipment of arms." Then Reagan was asked, "Could you explain what the Israeli role was here?" Reagan's response was, "No, because, as I say, have had nothing to do with other countries or their shipment of arms."


    There is more on the Iran/Contra affair here:


    The scandal was almost the undoing of the Teflon President. Of all the revelations that emerged, the most galling for the American public was the president's abandonment of the long-standing policy against dealing with terrorists, which Reagan repeatedly denied doing in spite of overwhelming evidence that made it appear he was simply lying to cover up the story.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

  2. #32
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    Re: The End of the Reagan Era?

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Such as? What do you see as character or agenda related flaws the should be addressed concerning an and all of the above former presidents you've mentioned?
    Kennedy installed the Baathists in Iraq, which we are still cleaning up now.
    He instigated the Cuban missile crisis.
    Did a couple other regime change assassinations.

    T. Roosevelt was a war happy douche and helped bring about the creation of the FDA, one of the most corrupt aspects of our government.
    He also helped with the progressive movement, which, to me, has become a plague of politics.

    Reagan really geared up the war on drugs, which has cost us tons.
    He also ramped up military build up which I would contest as not entirely necessary.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  3. #33
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    Re: The End of the Reagan Era?

    Kennedy installed the Baathists in Iraq, which we are still cleaning up now.
    He instigated the Cuban missile crisis.
    Did a couple other regime change assassinations.
    Obviously not something a libertarian would be happy about. However, the Soviets were attempting to streamline us out of Middle East oil. That would have created a very acute energy crisis.

    T. Roosevelt was a war happy douche and helped bring about the creation of the FDA, one of the most corrupt aspects of our government.
    He also helped with the progressive movement, which, to me, has become a plague of politics.
    Progressivism has many fine accomplishments, public education being the best of them, labor rights being the second.

    Reagan really geared up the war on drugs, which has cost us tons.
    He also ramped up military build up which I would contest as not entirely necessary.
    Unless you want to build nations. Nuclear power sort of makes war into an obsolete concept unless you want to get into a nation and fix it up from the inside.
    Last edited by Morality Games; 03-30-10 at 03:15 PM.
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  4. #34
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    Re: The End of the Reagan Era?

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    Obviously not something a libertarian would be happy about. However, the Soviets were attempting to streamline us out of Middle East oil. That would have created a very acute energy crisis.
    It completely destabilized the country.
    Which we are paying for now.

    I'm not so sure that threat was valid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    Progressivism has many fine accomplishments, public education being the best of them, labor rights being the second.
    Your value of "public education" is obviously much higher than mine.
    Labor rights is a double edged sword, unions are another scourge still plaguing us.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    Unless you want to build nations. Nuclear power sort of makes war into an obsolete concept unless you want to get into a nation and fix it up from the inside.
    We had nuclear weapons, enough to counter whatever was thrown at us.
    The Soviets were already on there way out, they didn't need any help.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  5. #35
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    Re: The End of the Reagan Era?

    One can only hope. The problem is that Reaganomics is capitalism with greed as the ultimate motive and since we are a capitalist economy and greed is easier than generosity, it will take a serious social movement.

    Even with the damage done since Reagan people still defend his policies. The Reagan Legacy Project has been a great influence on the deification of Reagan.

  6. #36
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    Re: The End of the Reagan Era?

    Quote Originally Posted by NoJingoLingo View Post
    One can only hope. The problem is that Reaganomics is capitalism with greed as the ultimate motive and since we are a capitalist economy and greed is easier than generosity, it will take a serious social movement.

    Even with the damage done since Reagan people still defend his policies. The Reagan Legacy Project has been a great influence on the deification of Reagan.
    Until you realize that almost every single person is greedy, you will never learn anything.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  7. #37
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    Re: The End of the Reagan Era?

    Quote Originally Posted by NoJingoLingo View Post
    One can only hope. The problem is that Reaganomics is capitalism with greed as the ultimate motive and since we are a capitalist economy and greed is easier than generosity, it will take a serious social movement.
    Human nature will never change.

    Even with the damage done since Reagan people still defend his policies.
    What's there to defend?

  8. #38
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    Re: The End of the Reagan Era?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Until you realize that almost every single person is greedy, you will never learn anything.
    I do realize it, but society's attitude can effect whether we accept or deny indulgences that do harm to itself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Human nature will never change.
    Evolution says you fail.

    What's there to defend?
    Outsourcing for more profit, unfunded tax cuts are peachy, reducing government (he didn't however), be greedy it helps the economy, privatize as much as you can because corporations are more important than workers, bust unions so they can't force employers to pay reasonable wages and working conditions and take away the important peoples profits, don't prosecute employers of illegals workers because they need those low wages to make more profits, after all, we can't outsource EVERYTHING, waste as much tax money on the military despite necessity and don't let the viability of a program stop the spending, alternative energy - **** that, give some more tax money to the fossil fuel industry... I could go on but I'm feeling nauseous.

  9. #39
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    Re: The End of the Reagan Era?

    Quote Originally Posted by NoJingoLingo View Post
    Evolution says you fail.
    Really? Show the evolutuon of human nature, specifically that it has changed.

    Outsourcing for more profit
    Show that this is a Reagan policy,

    unfunded tax cuts are peachy,
    There's no such thing as a funded/unfunded tax cut.

    reducing government (he didn't however)
    If he didnt achieve this policy point, what need is there toi defend it?

    be greedy it helps the economy,
    Capitalism is driven on 'greed'; the economy is capitalism.
    What's there to defend?

    privatize as much as you can because corporations are more important than workers
    non sequitur.

    bust unions so they can't force employers to pay reasonable wages and working conditions
    Show that this was a Reagan policy.
    Note that an eample or two does not, in and of itself, demonstrate a policy in place.

    don't prosecute employers of illegals workers because they need those low wages to make more profits,
    Show that this was a Reagan policy.
    Note that an eample or two does not, in and of itself, demonstrate a policy in place.

    waste as much tax money on the military despite necessity
    Not sure how these even makes sense, much less an example of RWR policy.

    and don't let the viability of a program stop the spending, alternative energy - **** that, give some more tax money to the fossil fuel industry
    See above.

    I could go on but I'm feeling nauseous.
    Its probably the abject failure of your mission to specify what policies need to be defended...

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