View Poll Results: A democratic Iraq means..........

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  • More people standing up against tyranny, like we're seeing in Iran

    8 33.33%
  • Democracy will not last, dictatorship will inevitably return

    9 37.50%
  • Democracy will take hold, but the results will not be favorable for the US

    3 12.50%
  • I'm a malodorous hippie who believes Dick Cheney and George Bush eat arab babies for fuel

    4 16.67%
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Thread: The Implications of a Democratic Iraq on the Middle East

  1. #31
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    Re: The Implications of a Democratic Iraq on the Middle East

    Quote Originally Posted by Libs_Luv_Weakness View Post
    You're right. I should have presented things as they were, with millions of Iraqis pleading for the international community to leave Saddam Hussein alone so that they could die at his hands.
    More died at his hands when we were his allies and trade partner and provided him with the precursor he needed to make the internationally banned Mustard gas that he used to commit genocide.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  2. #32
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    Re: The Implications of a Democratic Iraq on the Middle East

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    I see two possibilities
    A dictator would come into power eventually due to the tribal factions and religious emphasis except this time it would be the shia's in power. But the good news would be that if that ever did occur odds are good that the leader would be an ally of the west.

    Or Iraqis embrace democracy and elect extremists into power. Give the ME a vote and generally speaking a Islamic party would get in because of religion.

    Literal Islam and Democracy are on two opposing sides, Iraqis would have to become secular like Turkey for democracy to flourish and nutters to not get into power.
    When you're done assuming the worst, you should check out who is actually winning the Iraqi elections. Then you won't have to speculate in order to satisfy your misgivings!

  3. #33
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    Re: The Implications of a Democratic Iraq on the Middle East

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    More died at his hands when we were his allies and trade partner and provided him with the precursor he needed to make the internationally banned Mustard gas that he used to commit genocide.
    Ahhh, gotta love that logic.

    So, the fact that America has made mistakes in past business relationships negates any possible future good we could do around the world?

    I guess we may as well throw in the towel now, then. I suppose we'll have to send our ambassador over with a message.

    "Sorry Iraqi people, we would love to continue with this whole getting rid of a genocidal dictator thing, but we don't want to seem hypocritical. It's more righteous to sit on the sidelines and be defined by our mistakes".

    I don't agree with your mindset.
    Last edited by Libs_Luv_Weakness; 03-30-10 at 05:34 PM.

  4. #34
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    Re: The Implications of a Democratic Iraq on the Middle East

    Quote Originally Posted by Libs_Luv_Weakness View Post
    Ahhh, gotta love that logic.

    So, the fact that America has made mistakes in past business relationships negates any possible future good we could do around the world?

    I guess we may as well throw in the towel now, then. "Sorry Iraqi people, we would love to continue with this whole getting rid of a genocidal dictator thing, but we don't want to seem hypocritical. It's more righteous to sit on the sidelines and be defined by our mistakes".

    I don't agree with your mindset.
    What I disagree with is governemnt sponsored charity, especially when it goes to non-taxpayers.

    Did Saddam need to go? Sure. He was a giant douche.

    Should the US taxpayer be footing the bill for this charitable act in Iraq? Not in my opinion. I think such charitable ventures should be funded through private donors.

    As far as teh actual question, I can't predict the future. I would hope that our tax dollars at least went towards a successful venture.
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  5. #35
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    Re: The Implications of a Democratic Iraq on the Middle East

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    What I disagree with is governemnt sponsored charity, especially when it goes to non-taxpayers.

    Did Saddam need to go? Sure. He was a giant douche.

    Should the US taxpayer be footing the bill for this charitable act in Iraq? Not in my opinion. I think such charitable ventures should be funded through private donors.

    As far as teh actual question, I can't predict the future. I would hope that our tax dollars at least went towards a successful venture.
    I agree with your point on individual charity, but you're omitting a rather large variable in your analysis. A democratic Iraq is invaluable to creating a lasting peace in that region as a whole, and thereby crucially important to our own security.

    There is a reason that Iran and Syria have so much invested in Iraq's failure. There's also a reason that the Iraqi people stood up and ran them out of town.

  6. #36
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    Re: The Implications of a Democratic Iraq on the Middle East

    When was the last time the U.S. had a good democracy? The 1780s?

    Its pretty obvious that the results of this mess will not turn out in favor of the U.S. I'm not saying that people will purposely do it just to counteract American activity in the area (which might happen too), I'm just saying sh*t happens in the Middle East.


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    Re: The Implications of a Democratic Iraq on the Middle East

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Should the US taxpayer be footing the bill for this charitable act in Iraq? Not in my opinion.
    It is not a charitable act, but action for the security of the region which is in our strategic interest. We are getting it done cheaply. Only $1 trillion dollars. Cheaper than healthcare.

  8. #38
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    Re: The Implications of a Democratic Iraq on the Middle East

    Quote Originally Posted by Libs_Luv_Weakness View Post
    A democratic Iraq is invaluable to creating a lasting peace in that region as a whole, and thereby crucially important to our own security.
    Theoretically it is. That's what we've been told, but I'm relatively unconvinced.

    There is a reason that Iran and Syria have so much invested in Iraq's failure. There's also a reason that the Iraqi people stood up and ran them out of town.
    Maybe the entire goal wasn't total failure of our efforts, but simply increasing Iraqi factioning and discord amongst the different factions for later inroads into corrupting the democratic process.

    If so, they succeeded in that to some degree. What degree it was a success remains to be seen, though.
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  9. #39
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    Re: The Implications of a Democratic Iraq on the Middle East

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    It is not a charitable act, but action for the security of the region which is in our strategic interest. We are getting it done cheaply. Only $1 trillion dollars. Cheaper than healthcare.
    Why are you mentioning healthcare as though it has any relevance?

    The two are totally unrelated subjects, and the absurd amount of money spent on one does nothing to excuse the absurd amount of money spent on the other.

    Applying my logic equally means considering both of them to be astronomical wastes of taxpayer money.
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    Re: The Implications of a Democratic Iraq on the Middle East

    Quote Originally Posted by Libs_Luv_Weakness View Post
    Ahhh, gotta love that logic.

    So, the fact that America has made mistakes in past business relationships negates any possible future good we could do around the world?

    I guess we may as well throw in the towel now, then. I suppose we'll have to send our ambassador over with a message.

    "Sorry Iraqi people, we would love to continue with this whole getting rid of a genocidal dictator thing, but we don't want to seem hypocritical. It's more righteous to sit on the sidelines and be defined by our mistakes".

    I don't agree with your mindset.
    I love the term "mistake" do you think the Regan administration believed that Saddam was going to use the illegal chemical weapons legitimately? And this doesn't negate our ability 'do good' in the future, but what it does do is make it clear that these attempts to 'do good' will be interpreted as insincere and perhaps rightly. Before we start 'doing good' in the world maybe we should start with the more realistic target of 'screwing people over less'.
    Last edited by Red_Dave; 03-30-10 at 07:32 PM.

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