View Poll Results: A democratic Iraq means..........

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  • More people standing up against tyranny, like we're seeing in Iran

    8 33.33%
  • Democracy will not last, dictatorship will inevitably return

    9 37.50%
  • Democracy will take hold, but the results will not be favorable for the US

    3 12.50%
  • I'm a malodorous hippie who believes Dick Cheney and George Bush eat arab babies for fuel

    4 16.67%
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Thread: The Implications of a Democratic Iraq on the Middle East

  1. #21
    Student Pal's Avatar
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    Re: The Implications of a Democratic Iraq on the Middle East

    Quote Originally Posted by Libs_Luv_Weakness View Post
    Another telling post.

    I never once suggested that anyone should love Bush. In fact, I have my own beef with him. He was one of the most liberal Presidents of the last 60 years. He vetoed one spending bill in 8 years and grew the size of gov't by over 30%.

    I don't like any politician that spends my money like water, however I do feel that he was an outstanding wartime Commander in Chief.

    BTW, you realize that you're neoconservative, right?
    You could say that, but only because that's a misleading term. A neoconservative has more in common with a liberal than with a normal conservative. I tend to think of myself as a democratic socialist, most people consider that "very liberal" also, I come from Massachusetts, so it's hard to be much else

  2. #22
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    Re: The Implications of a Democratic Iraq on the Middle East

    Quote Originally Posted by Pal View Post
    You could say that, but only because that's a misleading term. A neoconservative has more in common with a liberal than with a normal conservative. I tend to think of myself as a democratic socialist, most people consider that "very liberal" also, I come from Massachusetts, so it's hard to be much else
    If you're a social/domestic liberal who advocates a foreign policy based on spreading democracy, you are neoconservative.

  3. #23
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    Re: The Implications of a Democratic Iraq on the Middle East

    Quote Originally Posted by Libs_Luv_Weakness View Post
    If you're a social/domestic liberal who advocates a foreign policy based on spreading democracy, you are neoconservative.
    I'm not really disagreeing with you, I'm just saying that that is a misleading term. When most people hear it they think conservative, but neoconservatism really only applies to foreign policy, whereas liberal is more of a social/fiscal term. Since I don't like to be confused with conservatives, I would describe my foreign policy stance as that of an "liberal interventionalist", just to avoid the confusion.

    I don't really think there's anything implicitly conservative about wanting to spread democracy. It's only in a democracy that the rights liberals cherish can thrive. FDR felt the same way, he wasn't conservative.
    Last edited by Pal; 03-27-10 at 01:59 AM.

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    Re: The Implications of a Democratic Iraq on the Middle East

    Quote Originally Posted by Pal View Post
    I'm not really disagreeing with you, I'm just saying that that is a misleading term. When most people hear it they think conservative, but neoconservatism really only applies to foreign policy, whereas liberal is more of a social/fiscal term. Since I don't like to be confused with conservatives, I would describe my foreign policy stance as that of an "liberal interventionalist", just to avoid the confusion.

    I don't really think there's anything implicitly conservative about wanting to spread democracy. It's only in a democracy that the rights liberals cherish can thrive. FDR felt the same way, he wasn't conservative.
    Fair enough, although the term wouldn't be misleading if people would educate themselves.

  5. #25
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    Catawba's Avatar
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    Re: The Implications of a Democratic Iraq on the Middle East

    Quote Originally Posted by Libs_Luv_Weakness View Post
    Of course, none of this stops you from going on your holier-than-thou diatribes about "forcing" ideologies on someone.
    Oh, I see, the history is re-written that the Iraqis requested we invade them, bring about the deaths of hundreds of thousands and militarily occupy their country for 8 years. That's what you are calling freedom now?

    =
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: The Implications of a Democratic Iraq on the Middle East

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Oh, I see, the history is re-written that the Iraqis requested we invade them, bring about the deaths of hundreds of thousands and militarily occupy their country for 8 years. That's what you are calling freedom now?

    =
    You're right. I should have presented things as they were, with millions of Iraqis pleading for the international community to leave Saddam Hussein alone so that they could die at his hands.

  7. #27
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    Re: The Implications of a Democratic Iraq on the Middle East

    Quote Originally Posted by Libs_Luv_Weakness View Post
    Thousands of brave American Soldiers went to the mat to give the people of Iraq a say in how their own future.

    Despite endless whining and tantrum throwing from the left, President Bush showed what can be accomplished when grown-ups are in office. Iraq is proving to be a resounding success, despite outside interference by people like Ahmadinejad, who have so much invested in tyranny.

    So what does this mean for the future of the region?
    I see two possibilities
    A dictator would come into power eventually due to the tribal factions and religious emphasis except this time it would be the shia's in power. But the good news would be that if that ever did occur odds are good that the leader would be an ally of the west.

    Or Iraqis embrace democracy and elect extremists into power. Give the ME a vote and generally speaking a Islamic party would get in because of religion.

    Literal Islam and Democracy are on two opposing sides, Iraqis would have to become secular like Turkey for democracy to flourish and nutters to not get into power.
    Last edited by Laila; 03-30-10 at 09:22 AM.


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    Re: The Implications of a Democratic Iraq on the Middle East

    Quote Originally Posted by Libs_Luv_Weakness View Post
    If you're a social/domestic liberal who advocates a foreign policy based on spreading democracy, you are neoconservative.
    In that case Bush is not a neoconservative. The "War on Terror" saw a huge rise in American arms exports and military aid to some of the most despotic regimes in the middle east.

  9. #29
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    Re: The Implications of a Democratic Iraq on the Middle East

    Quote Originally Posted by Pal View Post
    However, I don't for one second believe that bringing democracy to Iraq was the actual intention of the war, more of a side effect.
    We disagree here. Bringing democracy was always the strategic objective. This is outlined in my post here: http://www.debatepolitics.com/war-ir...post1058364285.

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    Re: The Implications of a Democratic Iraq on the Middle East

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    I see two possibilities
    A dictator would come into power eventually due to the tribal factions and religious emphasis except this time it would be the shia's in power. But the good news would be that if that ever did occur odds are good that the leader would be an ally of the west.

    Or Iraqis embrace democracy and elect extremists into power. Give the ME a vote and generally speaking a Islamic party would get in because of religion.

    Literal Islam and Democracy are on two opposing sides, Iraqis would have to become secular like Turkey for democracy to flourish and nutters to not get into power.
    The possibilities I see are civil war or secular nationalist coalition.

    The two top parties tied for first are the State of Law party by Maliki and the Iraqiyyah party by Allawi. Both are secular. Unfortunately, Maliki is allowing the Accountability and Justice Commission to disqualify 6 elected Sunni politicians, which would give the State of Law party the edge over the Iraqiyyah party. Talk about dirty politics!

    Iraq election: Victorious candidates may be purged, boosting Maliki / The Christian Science Monitor - CSMonitor.com

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