View Poll Results: How would you categorize education?

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  • It is a basic American right.

    17 38.64%
  • It is a privilege.

    19 43.18%
  • Other

    8 18.18%
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Thread: Education Is A Right?

  1. #31
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    Re: Education Is A Right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cilogy View Post
    Its relevant, because it affects how students get access to education, who gets access, and whether they even get access to begin with.

    If we were to as a tuition to primary education, then it excludes families who cannot afford it.
    No I don't think it is because society has pretty much collectively decided that it is necessary and have enshrined the right by providing for it and making compulsory. There are some fringe elements who are not convinced but they would have a lot of work to do in convincing the rest of the population to vote with them before they got their way.

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    Re: Education Is A Right?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    No I don't think it is because society has pretty much collectively decided that it is necessary and have enshrined the right by providing for it and making compulsory. There are some fringe elements who are not convinced but they would have a lot of work to do in convincing the rest of the population to vote with them before they got their way.
    Oh my, pardon this entire poll then.


  3. #33
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    Re: Education Is A Right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cilogy View Post
    If we use the Social Contract argument too much, then "basic rights" really kind of lose their meaning. The SC put basic human rights on a pedestal, when they should technically be just general knowledge, or implied inalienable rights. Does that make sense? I'm having trouble trying to explain this.
    That's an interesting take, because to be honest I think the opposite. That by noting things as social or legal contract instead of right, it reinforces what a right is. That it's a universal held by all humans. Life, liberty, property for instance I would say are rights. Everyone has them. But some things are "floppy" and can vary from society to society. Those not innately possessed by humans I would lean towards calling social contract.

    Perhaps this is merely a semantics thing. Wherein we mean the same thing, but we're calling it two different things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cilogy View Post
    So from your standpoint, from birth, not everyone should have the right?
    I think that it will really depend on society. In maybe less modernized countries it may be very easy to keep a government or have a good job and prosper without education. In that case, not being educated has little impact on life, liberty, or property. As such, I don't see education as a universal at this point, and is why I'm more likely to lean towards the social contract definition.
    Last edited by Ikari; 03-26-10 at 08:02 PM.
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  4. #34
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    Re: Education Is A Right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cilogy View Post
    Oh my, pardon this entire poll then.
    Oh I didn't mean it like that. Sorry. There are still a lot of details that need to be worked out, such the role of things like charter schools, education reform, etc. Also this is just my take on the issue and for me its something that's been settled for a long time.

  5. #35
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    Re: Education Is A Right?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Oh I didn't mean it like that. Sorry. There are still a lot of details that need to be worked out, such the role of things like charter schools, education reform, etc. Also this is just my take on the issue and for me its something that's been settled for a long time.
    No I was kidding.

    I agree with you after seeing that last post of yours. There doesn't seem to be a large enough movement to make it a "privilege only," so yes, I guess we can dismiss it.


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    Re: Education Is A Right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cilogy View Post
    No I was kidding.

    I agree with you after seeing that last post of yours. There doesn't seem to be a large enough movement to make it a "privilege only," so yes, I guess we can dismiss it.
    I hope it never becomes a privilege because that would mean that either our society is broke and it can no longer be afforded or people of less means are being seen as not being equal to those with more.

  7. #37
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    Re: Education Is A Right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cilogy View Post
    Its relevant, because it affects how students get access to education, who gets access, and whether they even get access to begin with.

    If we were to as a tuition to primary education, then it excludes families who cannot afford it.
    Well I kind of understand what you want to discuss. But the problem is you've asked a question where most people don't even agree upon the definition let alone the idea presented.

    Specifically, the discussion on what is a "right" and what are "rights" as applicable to US citizens is a topic complex enough as it is. When you add on the question of whether education is a "right" it only adds to the confusion.

    Don't get me wrong, its an interesting discussion but from my experience the terms used are too loose and vague to get any discussion of use from the likes of DP members.

    My suggestion was to simplify the question to something like: what level of education should be paid for by the state/nation, if any?
    And seperately: how can such funding or lack thereof be legally justified?

    This avoids the sticky issue of "rights".
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  8. #38
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    Re: Education Is A Right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Perhaps this is merely a semantics thing. Wherein we mean the same thing, but we're calling it two different things.
    I'm beginning to think the same thing.

    I think that it will really depend on society. In maybe less modernized countries it may be very easy to keep a government or have a good job and prosper without education. In that case, not being educated has little impact on life, liberty, or property. As such, I don't see education as a universal at this point, and is why I'm more likely to lean towards the social contract definition.
    I'm not sure if you read one of my previous posts, but I would agree with that. In third world countries and such, its probably not necessary, so the right should probably not be given out so liberally worldwide.

    What I said was in America only though. I mean, IMHO we are the nation that is closest to the ideal of "true freedom."


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    Re: Education Is A Right?

    Education can not be a right, as it is not something that you can give to someone. The opportunity for an education should be a right that applies to anyone, of any age. An educated population is necessary for the nation to remain competitive in the world, so we need to encourage it.

    But we can't give it to anyone, no matter how much we'd like to. It must be earned.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Education Is A Right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    The opportunity for an education should be a right that applies to anyone, of any age.
    I like this. This is more true than the previous statement.

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