View Poll Results: I support business refusal to do business with:

Voters
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  • Black People

    19 40.43%
  • Christians

    18 38.30%
  • Women

    18 38.30%
  • Gay people

    20 42.55%
  • Old People (65 and older)

    16 34.04%
  • Handicapped people (don't want to build ramps, etc)

    17 36.17%
  • Red headed people

    16 34.04%
  • None of the above

    29 61.70%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: Its ok for a business owner to refuse to do business with...

  1. #81
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    Re: Its ok for a business owner to refuse to do business with...

    Run away if you have to, but it only reflect on your integrity, resolve, and intellectual honesty.

    And it's mostly due to your continual misrepresentation of our argument, inability to contend with it, and overall attitude you brought to the discussion when faced with ideals you couldn't properly argue against.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  2. #82
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    Re: Its ok for a business owner to refuse to do business with...

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Am i wrong in stating the amount of successful abuse is minimal due to the implementation of cameras and surveillance devices, and the fact that a plaintiff actually has to have proof of discrimination.
    No, abuse is admittedly minimal, but the camera's and surveillance devices are only as good as what they catch, for instance if someone wanted to commit such a fraud they might take the argument further to claim that they were initially treated in a hostile manner and reacted in kind, or if they get the right court setup might state that they felt unwelcome and thus were discriminated against. It's all in how the context is framed.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  3. #83
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    Re: Its ok for a business owner to refuse to do business with...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    You have demonstrated no such understanding thus far. It's not mine, me; it's rights and liberties. Life, liberty, property; these are the foundations to all rights. The business is a private business, which means that an individual owns the property. That's their property. I don't get to tell them what to do with his property, that's not my business that's not my right. His rules. If he doesn't want Jews on his property, he can deny Jews from being in his property. Not my say. I didn't pay for the land, I don't pay the taxes on the land, I don't get a say. That's the basics.

    Jesus tap dancing Christ on a pogo stick. I didn't think I'd have to explain something like that to a functioning human.
    You have made this point already. I get you. I just don't believe things are always so black and white.

    The one ok with the use of government force against the individual when they were perfectly within their rights to do what they did. That's nowhere close to the base philosophy of libertarianism. I suggest you maybe go learn a thing or two before you begin ascribing names to yourself.
    My view on rights does in fact differ from yours. There are such things as positive and negative freedom. Nothing in this world is simple, including the concept of rights and freedom. I understand your views.

    Good day to you sir.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  4. #84
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    Re: Its ok for a business owner to refuse to do business with...

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    No, abuse is admittedly minimal, but the camera's and surveillance devices are only as good as what they catch, for instance if someone wanted to commit such a fraud they might take the argument further to claim that they were initially treated in a hostile manner and reacted in kind, or if they get the right court setup might state that they felt unwelcome and thus were discriminated against. It's all in how the context is framed.
    Do courts really award judgment because people "felt" they were being discriminated against? I am not a legal expert so i'll be PM'ing RNYC about this aspect.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  5. #85
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    Re: Its ok for a business owner to refuse to do business with...

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    You have made this point already. I get you. I just don't believe things are always so black and white.
    Many things have shades of subtleties to them, but rights are the basis which is supposed to form law in this country and thus must be taken as well more static and well defined than other areas of morality which are more "floppy". There is a base somewhere, an absolute. The absolute is found within the rights of the individual.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    My view on rights does in fact differ from yours. There are such things as positive and negative freedom. Nothing in this world is simple, including the concept of rights and freedom. I understand your views.
    I'm not disagreeing that you differ from me. What I'm saying is that your ideals are radically different from the base philosophy of libertarianism. We don't believe in floppy rights as you do.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  6. #86
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    Re: Its ok for a business owner to refuse to do business with...

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Do courts really award judgment because people "felt" they were being discriminated against? I am not a legal expert so i'll be PM'ing RNYC about this aspect.
    It can happen. Beyond a reasonable doubt is only strict criteria in a criminal court of law. Reasonable doubt itself can be used in civil court.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  7. #87
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    Re: Its ok for a business owner to refuse to do business with...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Run away if you have to, but it only reflect on your integrity, resolve, and intellectual honesty.

    And it's mostly due to your continual misrepresentation of our argument, inability to contend with it, and overall attitude you brought to the discussion when faced with ideals you couldn't properly argue against.
    You have made your point clear pages ago. Nothing new or within the realm of discussion has been added since then. If you desire to have a true discussion, by all means. But simply repeating your opinion is not going to cut it. You have to do better, or be creative. Something other than the same old cut and dry "private property rights".
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  8. #88
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    Re: Its ok for a business owner to refuse to do business with...

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    You have made your point clear pages ago. Nothing new or within the realm of discussion has been added since then. If you desire to have a true discussion, by all means. But simply repeating your opinion is not going to cut it. You have to do better, or be creative. Something other than the same old cut and dry "private property rights".
    The same can apply to you since the only counter you had to arguments of property rights is "things aren't that black and white". That's it. It's not an argument, it's a deflection. So the point is, we sit here with people having made actual argument for property rights and your response was "it's not black and white". That's it. So before you start throwing stones at us claiming that we need a better argument, you should maybe look at your own little glass house you've constructed out of deflection arguments and refusal to engage.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  9. #89
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    Re: Its ok for a business owner to refuse to do business with...

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Do courts really award judgment because people "felt" they were being discriminated against? I am not a legal expert so i'll be PM'ing RNYC about this aspect.
    Couldn't tell you about rewarding, but you can sue for just about anything. I have seen some stupid suits based on emotional crap like that, but don't know the outcome.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  10. #90
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    Re: Its ok for a business owner to refuse to do business with...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Many things have shades of subtleties to them, but rights are the basis which is supposed to form law in this country and thus must be taken as well more static and well defined than other areas of morality which are more "floppy". There is a base somewhere, an absolute. The absolute is found within the rights of the individual.
    I admit my views on rights are far more pragmatic than the "base". But if you wish to argue within the realm of absolutes, we cannot have a serious (let alone interesting discussion).

    I'm not disagreeing that you differ from me. What I'm saying is that your ideals are radically different from the base philosophy of libertarianism. We don't believe in floppy rights as you do.
    Radically? Maybe to you.

    However, my views on freedom are far more complex. I know of some libertarians who believe you do have the right to yell fire in a non burning building. Maybe you are in this camp, maybe not. The point is, I for one refuse to view the world in only one spectrum because it removes the intellectual aspect of dissonance.

    To each their own i guess.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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