View Poll Results: I support business refusal to do business with:

Voters
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  • Black People

    19 40.43%
  • Christians

    18 38.30%
  • Women

    18 38.30%
  • Gay people

    20 42.55%
  • Old People (65 and older)

    16 34.04%
  • Handicapped people (don't want to build ramps, etc)

    17 36.17%
  • Red headed people

    16 34.04%
  • None of the above

    29 61.70%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: Its ok for a business owner to refuse to do business with...

  1. #71
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    Re: Its ok for a business owner to refuse to do business with...

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    This depends on which definition of failure you want to go with. Government by it's regulatory nature always fails to accomplish goals, it's sluggish, and not as dynamic and efficient as an individual or business can be at adjusting to changes. Otherwise, if you are defining success as government passing a law that may or may not accomplish it's goals.....most of the time when they fail to do so I'd call that a societal success. I don't know that abuse exists past the government acting like a non-contributing partner via legislation(I reapeat that constantly because it is a slap in the face) as of right now, but these laws are constantly being added to and to the detriment of not only our basic rights, but even a limitation of being able to efficiently do business at the very end of the process.
    Has government overstepped its boundaries in regards to such legislation (anti-discrimination)? If so, what are some examples.

    Potential abuses are many though, you could have shakedown groups abusing these laws by creating problems, like sending their own members to be a problem customer and then forcing a lawsuit settlement, when you have a lot of businesses tired of this some upheaval can result.....things like that.
    Being a problem customer is not the same as being a homosexual or black. You will have to expand your theory a bit.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  2. #72
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    Re: Its ok for a business owner to refuse to do business with...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    My property, my rules. It's called property rights, deal with it.
    The same childish argument from the peanut gallery.

    Unfortunately the law does not agree with you. So deal with it!
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  3. #73
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    Re: Its ok for a business owner to refuse to do business with...

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    The same childish argument from the peanut gallery.

    Unfortunately the law does not agree with you. So deal with it!
    So you don't understand the concepts of rights, and when you are presented with the idea all you can do is reduce yourself to childish, unintellectual insults and run away ok.

    What sort of "libertarian" are you if you have no concept of rights? I mean besides "piss poor".
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  4. #74
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    Re: Its ok for a business owner to refuse to do business with...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    So you don't understand the concepts of rights, and when you are presented with the idea all you can do is reduce yourself to childish, unintellectual insults and run away ok.
    I understand the concept of rights. All you have stated (along with rivrrat) is mine, me, mine, rights, me, mine, freedom, liberty. Nothing the least bit intellectual. Nothing at all in regards to business operations.

    What sort of "libertarian" are you if you have no concept of rights? I mean besides "piss poor".
    The kind who does not get all riled up when a bigot is fined or sued over discriminatory business practices.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  5. #75
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    Re: Its ok for a business owner to refuse to do business with...

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    I understand the concept of rights. All you have stated (along with rivrrat) is mine, me, mine, rights, me, mine, freedom, liberty. Nothing the least bit intellectual. Nothing at all in regards to business operations.
    Because it has nothing to do with business operations. And everything to do with personal property rights.

    And it has nothing to do with me, since I am not a business owner and never will be.

  6. #76
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    Re: Its ok for a business owner to refuse to do business with...

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Has government overstepped its boundaries in regards to such legislation (anti-discrimination)? If so, what are some examples.
    To me, compelled service is overstepping boundaries.



    Being a problem customer is not the same as being a homosexual or black. You will have to expand your theory a bit.
    Correct, being a problem customer should be it's own issue, however when a customer is being a problem and called on it, sometimes they play the discrimination card and make all kinds of trouble for an establishment. That would be an abuse and as a former restaurant employee I have personally seen just that done with my own eyes.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  7. #77
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    Re: Its ok for a business owner to refuse to do business with...

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    I understand the concept of rights. All you have stated (along with rivrrat) is mine, me, mine, rights, me, mine, freedom, liberty. Nothing the least bit intellectual. Nothing at all in regards to business operations.
    You have demonstrated no such understanding thus far. It's not mine, me; it's rights and liberties. Life, liberty, property; these are the foundations to all rights. The business is a private business, which means that an individual owns the property. That's their property. I don't get to tell them what to do with his property, that's not my business that's not my right. His rules. If he doesn't want Jews on his property, he can deny Jews from being in his property. Not my say. I didn't pay for the land, I don't pay the taxes on the land, I don't get a say. That's the basics.

    Jesus tap dancing Christ on a pogo stick. I didn't think I'd have to explain something like that to a functioning human.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    The kind who does not get all riled up when a bigot is fined or sued over discriminatory business practices.
    The one ok with the use of government force against the individual when they were perfectly within their rights to do what they did. That's nowhere close to the base philosophy of libertarianism. I suggest you maybe go learn a thing or two before you begin ascribing names to yourself.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  8. #78
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    Re: Its ok for a business owner to refuse to do business with...

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    Because it has nothing to do with business operations. And everything to do with personal property rights.

    And it has nothing to do with me, since I am not a business owner and never will be.
    Well I suppose when you're scraping the bottom of the barrel, you'll make up anything to run away. That was pretty much what the "me, me, me," crap was. Deflection argument constructed so one can run away without addressing the real point. I refuse to believe that any human with a functioning brain didn't know what you were saying. Even if perhaps they disagree with the ideal of property rights or that this particular action being covered by it. That can happen for sure, but it's still obvious even to those who disagree that it's not a "me me me" argument; but rather one based on rights.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  9. #79
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    Re: Its ok for a business owner to refuse to do business with...

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    To me, compelled service is overstepping boundaries.
    That is your opinion and i respect it. I can only wish the others who agree with you can be a bit more open to consideration within the realm of discussion. It is impossible to have a legitimate discussion when people only view things in black and white. The world is mostly gray.

    Correct, being a problem customer should be it's own issue, however when a customer is being a problem and called on it, sometimes they play the discrimination card and make all kinds of trouble for an establishment. That would be an abuse and as a former restaurant employee I have personally seen just that done with my own eyes.
    Am i wrong in stating the amount of successful abuse is minimal due to the implementation of cameras and surveillance devices, and the fact that a plaintiff actually has to have proof of discrimination.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  10. #80
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    Re: Its ok for a business owner to refuse to do business with...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Well I suppose when you're scraping the bottom of the barrel, you'll make up anything to run away. That was pretty much what the "me, me, me," crap was. Deflection argument constructed so one can run away without addressing the real point. I refuse to believe that any human with a functioning brain didn't know what you were saying. Even if perhaps they disagree with the ideal of property rights or that this particular action being covered by it. That can happen for sure, but it's still obvious even to those who disagree that it's not a "me me me" argument; but rather one based on rights.
    That is all you two have stated from the get go. Black and white interpretations of rights will continue to fall on deaf ears unless you can make an attempt to have a serious discussion without pulling out the "rights" card LMR has no difficulty in this regard. The dialog between us has been nothing short of respectful and engaging even though we disagree.

    You two on the other hand have done very little to add anything to discussion besides "its mine". Why even bother replying in this discussion. You have made your opinions crystal clear.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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