View Poll Results: I support business refusal to do business with:

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  • Black People

    19 40.43%
  • Christians

    18 38.30%
  • Women

    18 38.30%
  • Gay people

    20 42.55%
  • Old People (65 and older)

    16 34.04%
  • Handicapped people (don't want to build ramps, etc)

    17 36.17%
  • Red headed people

    16 34.04%
  • None of the above

    29 61.70%
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Thread: Its ok for a business owner to refuse to do business with...

  1. #61
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    Re: Its ok for a business owner to refuse to do business with...

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    I agree in full. An argument could be made for either side, but they were ultimately responsible for their actions. This is true, and that is why I cannot see it being enough to warrant an encroachment on private property, the uncertainty factor. I agree that bigotry is wrong, most sane and rational people should I think. I just don't see it as enough to warrant a rollback of individual rights, that is a very strong litmus test for me.
    All we have been hearing is that there is this fear of government manipulation. I have not seen any hypothetical involving what concerns you have in regards to "government failure". You have agreed that if this is the only purpose being served (bigotry no longer being acceptable in business), you would support it. Since i believe there are currently laws in place in the US that protect against such behavior, what governmental abuses have surfaced as a result of such legislation? What are some serious potential abuses?
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  2. #62
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    Re: Its ok for a business owner to refuse to do business with...

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    All we have been hearing is that there is this fear of government manipulation. I have not seen any hypothetical involving what concerns you have in regards to "government failure". You have agreed that if this is the only purpose being served (bigotry no longer being acceptable in business), you would support it. Since i believe there are currently laws in place in the US that protect against such behavior, what governmental abuses have surfaced as a result of such legislation? What are some serious potential abuses?
    The abuse IS the legislation.

  3. #63
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    Re: Its ok for a business owner to refuse to do business with...

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Well thank you captain obvious. The government also got involved and awarded a massive settlement in favor of those who were the victims of a hate crime.

    The optimal scenario is for the behavior that escalated the assault to never take place.
    The optimal scenario is for humans to not behave like monkeys. But we do, so we'll have to deal with it. You can't start forbidding things because it maybe possible kinda under some circumstances to possibly almost lead to something bad. When something bad happens, you can respond to that. Until then, mind your own bees wax.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  4. #64
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    Re: Its ok for a business owner to refuse to do business with...

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    The abuse IS the legislation.
    You have made your opinion quite clear from the get go. Anything else to offer besides, "me me me, mine mine mine"?
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  5. #65
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    Re: Its ok for a business owner to refuse to do business with...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    The optimal scenario is for humans to not behave like monkeys. But we do, so we'll have to deal with it. You can't start forbidding things because it maybe possible kinda under some circumstances to possibly almost lead to something bad. When something bad happens, you can respond to that. Until then, mind your own bees wax.
    What are you talking about; possibly always leading to something bad? You are arguing the exact same point only from another perspective. That government involvement always leads to something bad.

    You can't have it both ways. If so, your argument is negated.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  6. #66
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    Re: Its ok for a business owner to refuse to do business with...

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    You have made your opinion quite clear from the get go. Anything else to offer besides, "me me me, mine mine mine"?
    Her opinion is quite clear, I am unsure as to how you misinterpreted it. It's not me, mine. It's rights and liberty.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  7. #67
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    Re: Its ok for a business owner to refuse to do business with...

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    What are you talking about; possibly always leading to something bad? You are arguing the exact same point only from another perspective. That government involvement always leads to something bad.

    You can't have it both ways. If so, your argument is negated.
    You cannot restrict the individual through government force in the way you describe. The government can ALWAYS be restricted, as it is not an institution which holds rights. You know, this is very standard libertarian understanding. How can you claim "libertarian" and have no concept of rights?
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  8. #68
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    Re: Its ok for a business owner to refuse to do business with...

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    All we have been hearing is that there is this fear of government manipulation. I have not seen any hypothetical involving what concerns you have in regards to "government failure".
    This depends on which definition of failure you want to go with. Government by it's regulatory nature always fails to accomplish goals, it's sluggish, and not as dynamic and efficient as an individual or business can be at adjusting to changes. Otherwise, if you are defining success as government passing a law that may or may not accomplish it's goals.....most of the time when they fail to do so I'd call that a societal success.
    You have agreed that if this is the only purpose being served (bigotry no longer being acceptable in business), you would support it. Since i believe there are currently laws in place in the US that protect against such behavior, what governmental abuses have surfaced as a result of such legislation? What are some serious potential abuses?
    I don't know that abuse exists past the government acting like a non-contributing partner via legislation(I reapeat that constantly because it is a slap in the face) as of right now, but these laws are constantly being added to and to the detriment of not only our basic rights, but even a limitation of being able to efficiently do business at the very end of the process.
    Potential abuses are many though, you could have shakedown groups abusing these laws by creating problems, like sending their own members to be a problem customer and then forcing a lawsuit settlement, when you have a lot of businesses tired of this some upheaval can result.....things like that.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  9. #69
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    Re: Its ok for a business owner to refuse to do business with...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Her opinion is quite clear, I am unsure as to how you misinterpreted it. It's not me, mine. It's rights and liberty.
    Then do your best to explain to me how your rights are at all violated if bigotry in business is not legal (which is the reality at the moment)?

    If you are going to argue for the right to implement a bigoted business plan, you are going to have to put in a little more effort than "liberty freedom and rights".
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  10. #70
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    Re: Its ok for a business owner to refuse to do business with...

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Then do your best to explain to me how your rights are at all violated if bigotry in business is not legal (which is the reality at the moment)?
    My property, my rules. It's called property rights, deal with it.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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