View Poll Results: I support business refusal to do business with:

Voters
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  • Black People

    19 40.43%
  • Christians

    18 38.30%
  • Women

    18 38.30%
  • Gay people

    20 42.55%
  • Old People (65 and older)

    16 34.04%
  • Handicapped people (don't want to build ramps, etc)

    17 36.17%
  • Red headed people

    16 34.04%
  • None of the above

    29 61.70%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: Its ok for a business owner to refuse to do business with...

  1. #51
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    Re: Its ok for a business owner to refuse to do business with...

    Allowing open discrimination has the tendency to create civil unrest. We look to government to quell such instances in an attempt to keep order. There is no doubt a causative link between discriminative practices (along with other aspects of bigotry) and social unrest. Therefore it is the responsibility of the government to legislate in an attempt to diffuse such future implications of bigotry.

    Case in point:
    Researchers from the University of Georgia in Athens, the University of California-Davis and Iowa State University in Ames set out to evaluate the psychological adjustment of 714 African-American children. The children and their primary caregivers, usually the mothers, were personally interviewed in the home three times over a five-year period, beginning when the children were 10 to 12 years old. The study is part of a larger, ongoing joint project, the Family and Community Health Study, conducted with support from the National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH).

    The children were interviewed about any racial discrimination they saw directed towards themselves and those close to them, feelings of depression, engagement in antisocial behavior and extent to which their friends expected and encouraged positive behavior. The children and their mothers were also interviewed about the mothers' parenting practices and the children's school experiences.

    The researchers found that children whose experience with racially based insults, name calling and distrust increased as they moved into adolescence were more likely to report symptoms of depression, such as feeling irritable, having difficulty sleeping and having trouble concentrating in school. Boys were also more likely to become involved in antisocial behavior such as fighting and shoplifting.
    Racial discrimination can affect adolescents' development - lead to depression and behavior problems

    The negative externalities associated with discrimination are far more costly to society than the benefit being allowed to refuse service based on bigotry.

    Remember: Firm creation is based on the goal of maximum profits. Being able to "do whatever i want" has absolutely nothing to do with this discussion unless it pertains to achieving max profit.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  2. #52
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    Re: Its ok for a business owner to refuse to do business with...

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Allowing open discrimination has the tendency to create civil unrest. We look to government to quell such instances in an attempt to keep order. There is no doubt a causative link between discriminative practices (along with other aspects of bigotry) and social unrest. Therefore it is the responsibility of the government to legislate in an attempt to diffuse such future implications of bigotry.
    I don't remember any race riots during the Deny's incident, nor the Walmart incident when that idiot hijacked the P.A. system, if social unrest were a certainty then in those two cases social unrest should have happened.

    Case in point:

    Racial discrimination can affect adolescents' development - lead to depression and behavior problems

    The negative externalities associated with discrimination are far more costly to society than the benefit being allowed to refuse service based on bigotry.

    Remember: Firm creation is based on the goal of maximum profits. Being able to "do whatever i want" has absolutely nothing to do with this discussion unless it pertains to achieving max profit.
    Again, externalities are irrelevant when used against a basic right such as private property, else anyone could create any externality for any reason to back any agenda.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  3. #53
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    Re: Its ok for a business owner to refuse to do business with...

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    I don't remember any race riots during the Deny's incident, nor the Walmart incident when that idiot hijacked the P.A. system, if social unrest were a certainty then in those two cases social unrest should have happened.
    Riots are one thing. The social unrest created by the business practices of Denny's are very real.
    Ten Syracuse University students are suing the Denny's restaurant chain for racial discrimination, saying they were denied service, thrown out when they complained and roughed up in the parking lot.

    Lawyer Elizabeth OuYang and several plaintiffs charged today that Denny's had failed to make sure all its employees underwent anti-discrimination training as required by the 1994 settlement of a class-action lawsuit.

    Denny's spokeswoman Karen Randall said the company was outraged by the incident and was firing some employees and disciplining others. Denny's President John Romandetti expressed "deep regret" in a statement. The lawsuit, filed Wednesday in federal court in
    Bias Alleged at N.Y. Denny's - The Washington Post | HighBeam Research - FREE trial

    Again, externalities are irrelevant when used against a basic right such as private property, else anyone could create any externality for any reason to back any agenda.
    You will have to expand your hypothesis a bit more
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  4. #54
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    Re: Its ok for a business owner to refuse to do business with...

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Riots are one thing. The social unrest created by the business practices of Denny's are very real.
    Such as? 10 Characters.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Its ok for a business owner to refuse to do business with...

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Such as? 10 Characters.
    The kids were beaten up. Now, you might be in the camp that behaves in the "turn the other cheek" fashion, but i have very little doubt this have negatively effected the "customers". Hate fuels hate. And while we may not be able to eliminate every instance, to sit idly by serves no purpose.... even for the bigots themselves.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Its ok for a business owner to refuse to do business with...

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    The kids were beaten up. Now, you might be in the camp that behaves in the "turn the other cheek" fashion, but i have very little doubt this have negatively effected the "customers". Hate fuels hate. And while we may not be able to eliminate every instance, to sit idly by serves no purpose.... even for the bigots themselves.
    Okay, the kids were beaten up, what was the immediate threat to public safety, I feel for them of course, but was there a riot or else out of control situation that police couldn't handle. And again, an isolated incident does not a need prove. You have to understand, for a right to be trumped you have got to have a 100% provable case, I'm not seeing it.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Its ok for a business owner to refuse to do business with...

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Okay, the kids were beaten up, what was the immediate threat to public safety, I feel for them of course, but was there a riot or else out of control situation that police couldn't handle. And again, an isolated incident does not a need prove. You have to understand, for a right to be trumped you have got to have a 100% provable case, I'm not seeing it.
    The police should never have been involved in the first place. Like i said before, there are too many extremes on both ends and these are the ones we have to worry about. Are these kids now part of the same "hate" mindset due to their treatment?

    And that is the ****ed up part. You do not really know until **** hits the fan. We have agreed on many aspects of this argument. The only one we do not agree on is the right to operate a business in a bigoted manner.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  8. #58
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    Re: Its ok for a business owner to refuse to do business with...

    [quote]
    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    The police should never have been involved in the first place. Like i said before, there are too many extremes on both ends and these are the ones we have to worry about.
    I agree in full.
    Are these kids now part of the same "hate" mindset due to their treatment?
    An argument could be made for either side, but they were ultimately responsible for their actions.
    And that is the ****ed up part. You do not really know until **** hits the fan.
    This is true, and that is why I cannot see it being enough to warrant an encroachment on private property, the uncertainty factor.
    We have agreed on many aspects of this argument. The only one we do not agree on is the right to operate a business in a bigoted manner.
    I agree that bigotry is wrong, most sane and rational people should I think. I just don't see it as enough to warrant a rollback of individual rights, that is a very strong litmus test for me.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  9. #59
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    Re: Its ok for a business owner to refuse to do business with...

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    The kids were beaten up. Now, you might be in the camp that behaves in the "turn the other cheek" fashion, but i have very little doubt this have negatively effected the "customers". Hate fuels hate. And while we may not be able to eliminate every instance, to sit idly by serves no purpose.... even for the bigots themselves.
    Well the government can definitely become involved over the assault.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  10. #60
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    Re: Its ok for a business owner to refuse to do business with...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Well the government can definitely become involved over the assault.
    Well thank you captain obvious. The government also got involved and awarded a massive settlement in favor of those who were the victims of a hate crime.

    The optimal scenario is for the behavior that escalated the assault to never take place.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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