View Poll Results: I support business refusal to do business with:

Voters
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  • Black People

    19 40.43%
  • Christians

    18 38.30%
  • Women

    18 38.30%
  • Gay people

    20 42.55%
  • Old People (65 and older)

    16 34.04%
  • Handicapped people (don't want to build ramps, etc)

    17 36.17%
  • Red headed people

    16 34.04%
  • None of the above

    29 61.70%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: Its ok for a business owner to refuse to do business with...

  1. #111
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    Re: Its ok for a business owner to refuse to do business with...

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    But most businesses are "open to the public". It is not as though these types of regulations require you to open your home homosexuals if you are against it.
    We aren't differentiating between home and business on this side though, we are talking about legally owned property.



    Care to be specific?
    I don't think this site has enough bandwidth. Many Sec regulations go to far, the fed has many oppressive regulations, the I.R.S. is a joke, Dept. of HHS(should be states only), the F.C.C. is to big, Fannie/Freddie(do I really have to explain it?), etc. etc.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  2. #112
    I'm not-low all the time
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    Re: Its ok for a business owner to refuse to do business with...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    It's not proper government control. The government can't just say "oh well, it doesn't affect Y so we can do whatever we want!". The government is a restricted entity which posses duty, privilege, and power by behest of the People. It does not have rights. Individuals have rights. The individual can say "Oh well, what I am doing doesn't affect the rights of others, so I can do whatever I want!". That's valid as the individual possesses rights. So if someone wants to make a business which, for instance, is white only; they should be more than free to do so. They're the one's paying the money for the land, for the business, for the taxes. Not me, not government. They can set their rules. And if it's unsustainable, then the business goes under. It's not the government's job to ensure success of business, that's up to the individual who owns the business.
    Consumers have rights as well. When you open your doors in an attempt to pull profit, you are inviting in all sorts of issues. The notion that the market will police itself is quite incorrect. In the LONG RUN all economic profits = zero. Like i said before, hate breeds hate, and that is something that will in fact impede long run profitability (not to mention the short run). Until you operate your own business, with your own capital, time and money, you really will not understand. Discrimination has zero importance in the discussion of business unless of course it effects your profitability. Until you can show how such regulation hits the bottom line, your opinion of the matter is arbitrary.

    There is the notion of positive rights. The fact that many people who claim to be pro freedom are so obsessed with negative rights is what pushes them into the fringe. I am in business to make money. I am not in business to exercise my negative rights in any manner i see fit. When you enter this realm, the acceptance of positive rights will begin to have a "positive" impact on your profitability.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  3. #113
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    Re: Its ok for a business owner to refuse to do business with...

    If the government knows the discrimination in businesses is going on and not only allows it but funds itself from the taxes collected, the government is an accomplice. So no. It is not 'okay'.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  4. #114
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    Re: Its ok for a business owner to refuse to do business with...

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    I don't think this site has enough bandwidth. Many Sec regulations go to far, the fed has many oppressive regulations, the I.R.S. is a joke, Dept. of HHS(should be states only), the F.C.C. is to big, Fannie/Freddie(do I really have to explain it?), etc. etc.
    I understand and agree with much of this. However, this specific legislation does not carry with it the degree of governmental failure as those listed above. If anything, it improves the business atmosphere for both consumers and producers.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  5. #115
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    Re: Its ok for a business owner to refuse to do business with...

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Consumers have rights as well.
    Not so fast, those were created legally and only a few decades ago, the same logic that created those "consumer rights" also created environmental legislation(the price of vehicles shot up about 10% within a short period of time), and one of the fastest regulatory growth periods in this country's history. So again, it shows the reasons why we aren't in a rush to empower government to regulate at will, arbitrarily, and without inarguable reasons.
    When you open your doors in an attempt to pull profit, you are inviting in all sorts of issues. The notion that the market will police itself is quite incorrect.
    I disagree. The Chevy Corsair, Ford Pinto, etc. terrible vehicles that went sour with the public quickly, the car lines died in short periods of time, Denny's is still kissing ass after their racial issues in the nineties, Married With Children almost got taken off of the air by one uptight housewife despite it's ratings because she attacked their sponsors. There are millions of real world examples of the market working.
    There is the notion of positive rights. The fact that many people who claim to be pro freedom are so obsessed with negative rights is what pushes them into the fringe.
    I don't subscribe to positive rights theory, and the founding fathers writings covered it along with the constitution. If the government wasn't given a power, it was intentional, if the power isn't listed, the government doesn't have it, however all rights are not listed, they extend to what the government cannot legally do.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  6. #116
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    Re: Its ok for a business owner to refuse to do business with...

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    I understand and agree with much of this. However, this specific legislation does not carry with it the degree of governmental failure as those listed above. If anything, it improves the business atmosphere for both consumers and producers.
    I agree, however the principle behind all regulation has a core.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  7. #117
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    Re: Its ok for a business owner to refuse to do business with...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    If the government knows the discrimination in businesses is going on and not only allows it but funds itself from the taxes collected, the government is an accomplice. So no. It is not 'okay'.
    Right, you already argued that without any applicable logic and based on completely emotion based rhetoric. Got anything else?
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  8. #118
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    Re: Its ok for a business owner to refuse to do business with...

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Consumers have rights as well.
    Almost all of which come in through right of contract, an essential right of the People. In so much that the products being sold are accurately described, safety issues are clear, etc. But there is no right to be served by any particular business. Economics is not a zero sum game, there are way to create wealth. In the long run, it's not necessarily zero. The individual businesses are thus up to the individual business owners to decide how to run. And they can succeed or fail by their own practices and work. That's their business, that is their job; it is not my job to ensure they have business practices which will help the to succeed the best nor is it the government's job to do so. Especially when those laws and regulations will come at the cost of the rights of the property owner.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  9. #119
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    Re: Its ok for a business owner to refuse to do business with...

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    The thread on the B&B has me intrigued. I'm curious how people would feel about other scenarios.

    Please answer the following scenarios:

    It would be OK for a business to refuse to do business with:
    I dont think the case in question is comparable to refusing to do business with black people. These people were not refused for what they were but what they were likely to do in the home of the owners. As absurd as I might find their objection they have a right to enforce it in their own home.

  10. #120
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    Re: Its ok for a business owner to refuse to do business with...

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    The thread on the B&B has me intrigued. I'm curious how people would feel about other scenarios.

    Please answer the following scenarios:

    It would be OK for a business to refuse to do business with:
    LOL

    poll fail.
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    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
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