View Poll Results: I support business refusal to do business with:

Voters
47. You may not vote on this poll
  • Black People

    19 40.43%
  • Christians

    18 38.30%
  • Women

    18 38.30%
  • Gay people

    20 42.55%
  • Old People (65 and older)

    16 34.04%
  • Handicapped people (don't want to build ramps, etc)

    17 36.17%
  • Red headed people

    16 34.04%
  • None of the above

    29 61.70%
Multiple Choice Poll.
Page 11 of 14 FirstFirst ... 910111213 ... LastLast
Results 101 to 110 of 132

Thread: Its ok for a business owner to refuse to do business with...

  1. #101
    Goddess of Bacon

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Charlottesville, VA
    Last Seen
    05-28-12 @ 09:35 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    13,988

    Re: Its ok for a business owner to refuse to do business with...

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post

    The fact that the firms objective is maximum profits has zero meaning to you.
    No, not zero meaning. Zero relevance to the discussion of property rights.

    The relevance it DOES have is with regard to the populace forcing a business out by denying them the profits they want. But profit motive has zero relevance when discussing the property rights of an individual who owns a business.

    Continuing to repeat your "profit" mantra isn't going to confuse us into thinking it has any relevance.

  2. #102
    Klattu Verata Nicto
    LaMidRighter's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Louisiana
    Last Seen
    07-21-17 @ 02:42 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    30,534

    Re: Its ok for a business owner to refuse to do business with...

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    In the short run, yes. In the long run markets rule. Which is why we have witnessed both Korean and Japanese convergence even though they have far more barriers to entry in regards to the entrepreneurial spirit.
    Well then we are calling growth subjective, while the Korean market is growing the Japanese market is in it's second stagnation in as many as 15 years, the Yen is still taking a beating.

    Again, I wish it was as easy as it sounds to say let's just regulate that x group is protected without damaging basic personal rights, it's not.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  3. #103
    I'm not-low all the time
    Kushinator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    West Loop
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:40 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    16,387

    Re: Its ok for a business owner to refuse to do business with...

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Well then we are calling growth subjective, while the Korean market is growing the Japanese market is in it's second stagnation in as many as 15 years, the Yen is still taking a beating.

    Again, I wish it was as easy as it sounds to say let's just regulate that x group is protected without damaging basic personal rights, it's not.
    The question i have been asking is: what basic personal rights have been damaged? The right for a firm to operate in a bigoted manner? If that is what you are talking about, than i can really care less about their damaged rights. There are far more important things to worry about than ones ability to open a bigoted enterprise.

    But that is just my opinion.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  4. #104
    Sage
    Ikari's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Colorado
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:33 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    54,155

    Re: Its ok for a business owner to refuse to do business with...

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Attack? I said you claimed me me me mine mine mine. That is not an attack, only pointing out the reality of the situation. We have nothing to discuss because you view this discussion to be only in regards to property rights.

    The fact that the firms objective is maximum profits has zero meaning to you.

    There is really nothing to discuss with you because you have made your point and argument clear: Its all or nothing.
    No, I pointed out it wasn't me me me, and all you could do is call the argument childish comments from the peanut gallery. You remember that?

    The fact is that most businesses operate to make money, but the individuals who own businesses may have different priorities. It's not my place to say that a company has to exist to make money. It's how they are sustained, which is how you really affect situations like discriminatory business, but it's not a law. The owner of the business can do anything they want, even make an unrealistic business style. If they don't want to serve certain folk, that's up to them. It's not my place to tell them no. It's their property, their business; they can do with it as they like. If they want to take a hit to profit by excluding certain people; then so be it. If we don't like it we can not go to that business, we can protest that business, we can affect the customer base of that business. But to use the force of government against individual's rights and liberties whom have not encroached upon the rights of others is not warranted.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  5. #105
    Klattu Verata Nicto
    LaMidRighter's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Louisiana
    Last Seen
    07-21-17 @ 02:42 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    30,534

    Re: Its ok for a business owner to refuse to do business with...

    [quote]
    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    The question i have been asking is: what basic personal rights have been damaged? The right for a firm to operate in a bigoted manner? If that is what you are talking about, than i can really care less about their damaged rights.
    Well, frankly, the right to private property IS a right to be a bigot, your property, your rules.
    There are far more important things to worry about than ones ability to open a bigoted enterprise.
    I assert that they are all part of the same problem. An overreaching government creates the regulations that caused every big problem we suffer.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  6. #106
    I'm not-low all the time
    Kushinator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    West Loop
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:40 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    16,387

    Re: Its ok for a business owner to refuse to do business with...

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    No, not zero meaning. Zero relevance to the discussion of property rights.

    The relevance it DOES have is with regard to the populace forcing a business out by denying them the profits they want. But profit motive has zero relevance when discussing the property rights of an individual who owns a business.

    Continuing to repeat your "profit" mantra isn't going to confuse us into thinking it has any relevance.
    If what you consider "violation of their property rights" does not in any way effect their bottom line, then why does it matter? The premise behind firm creation is not the ability to "do what i want".

    When the law states that anyone, at any time can enter your establishment and you are forced to serve them regardless of their impeding of your bottom line (profit move), i will definitely agree with you.

    I am a multiple business owner, and can care less if it is illegal to discriminate. When various regulations and the sort begins to effect my bottom line, i will continue to keep my ideology from impeding my priorities.

    If it does not effect firm profitability both long and short run, then your premise on "property rights" is in fact arbitrary.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  7. #107
    I'm not-low all the time
    Kushinator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    West Loop
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:40 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    16,387

    Re: Its ok for a business owner to refuse to do business with...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    No, I pointed out it wasn't me me me, and all you could do is call the argument childish comments from the peanut gallery. You remember that?

    The fact is that most businesses operate to make money, but the individuals who own businesses may have different priorities. It's not my place to say that a company has to exist to make money. It's how they are sustained, which is how you really affect situations like discriminatory business, but it's not a law. The owner of the business can do anything they want, even make an unrealistic business style. If they don't want to serve certain folk, that's up to them. It's not my place to tell them no. It's their property, their business; they can do with it as they like. If they want to take a hit to profit by excluding certain people; then so be it. If we don't like it we can not go to that business, we can protest that business, we can affect the customer base of that business. But to use the force of government against individual's rights and liberties whom have not encroached upon the rights of others is not warranted.
    If it does not effect their bottom line (and i am positive that anti-discrimination legislation does not in any way), your premise is arbitrary. Maybe that is important to you. To me, i like making money and tend not to sweat the small stuff.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  8. #108
    Sage
    Ikari's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Colorado
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:33 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    54,155

    Re: Its ok for a business owner to refuse to do business with...

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    If what you consider "violation of their property rights" does not in any way effect their bottom line, then why does it matter?
    It's not proper government control. The government can't just say "oh well, it doesn't affect Y so we can do whatever we want!". The government is a restricted entity which posses duty, privilege, and power by behest of the People. It does not have rights. Individuals have rights. The individual can say "Oh well, what I am doing doesn't affect the rights of others, so I can do whatever I want!". That's valid as the individual possesses rights. So if someone wants to make a business which, for instance, is white only; they should be more than free to do so. They're the one's paying the money for the land, for the business, for the taxes. Not me, not government. They can set their rules. And if it's unsustainable, then the business goes under. It's not the government's job to ensure success of business, that's up to the individual who owns the business.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  9. #109
    I'm not-low all the time
    Kushinator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    West Loop
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:40 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    16,387

    Re: Its ok for a business owner to refuse to do business with...

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Well, frankly, the right to private property IS a right to be a bigot, your property, your rules.
    But most businesses are "open to the public". It is not as though these types of regulations require you to open your home homosexuals if you are against it.

    I assert that they are all part of the same problem. An overreaching government creates the regulations that caused every big problem we suffer.
    Care to be specific?
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  10. #110
    Goddess of Bacon

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Charlottesville, VA
    Last Seen
    05-28-12 @ 09:35 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    13,988

    Re: Its ok for a business owner to refuse to do business with...

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    If what you consider "violation of their property rights" does not in any way effect their bottom line, then why does it matter? The premise behind firm creation is not the ability to "do what i want".

    When the law states that anyone, at any time can enter your establishment and you are forced to serve them regardless of their impeding of your bottom line (profit move), i will definitely agree with you.

    I am a multiple business owner, and can care less if it is illegal to discriminate. When various regulations and the sort begins to effect my bottom line, i will continue to keep my ideology from impeding my priorities.

    If it does not effect firm profitability both long and short run, then your premise on "property rights" is in fact arbitrary.
    Seriously, how many times do you have to be told by multiple people here that in the context of this discussion regarding personal property rights, the profit of a business on that property is irrelevant.

    If I do not have a business on my property, I can discriminate against any person for any reason. I do not have to allow anyone, including law enforcement, onto my property unless they have a warrant and/or just cause. I can discriminate against *anyone*.

    Why should someone lose that personal property right just because they open a business?

Page 11 of 14 FirstFirst ... 910111213 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •