View Poll Results: Do you think we need a Third Party in America?

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  • Yes, We do need a Third Party

    22 50.00%
  • No, We do not need a Third Party

    4 9.09%
  • I'm not sure

    5 11.36%
  • Other

    13 29.55%
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Thread: What do you think of a Third Party in the United States?

  1. #51
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    Re: What do you think of a Third Party in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    That's what we do. We campaign a lot on local levels, we can get some success there as well. But the system is corrupt and is specifically designed especially on the federal level to ensure that other parties are not presented to the people in order to cement the rule of the Republocrats.
    How? (I don't necessarily disagree with you).

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    Re: What do you think of a Third Party in the United States?

    I'm not saying I'm against it because I am not but does anyone else see the negative part that a candidate could become president with support from only 34% of he country if we had 3 major parties?

  3. #53
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    Re: What do you think of a Third Party in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    How? (I don't necessarily disagree with you).
    Campaign finance is one way in which they do a very good job holding back third parties. Raising money become tough unless you already have a large sum of money to invest into campaigning. Which means you either come from one of the main parties with huge coffers or you're independently wealthy. That last part, they took out by restricting participation in debates. That's thanks to Ross Perot who was absolutely crazy, but rich enough to spend massive money on advertising and captured a significant portion of the vote because of it. They don't want to repeat that, so the League of Women Voters which typically held things such as Presidential debates were removed from the system and now its governed by a set of rules specifically constructed to effectively keep out third parties. It is further exacerbated through the partisan nature of our press whom will report primarily only on the main parties in some way.

    For instance, in the Bush/Kerry debate in Arizona I believe, the Libertarian and Green party Presidential candidates were arrested outside the debates. Did you hear that on the news? Presidential candidates at a Presidential candidate debate were arrested outside the debate. Seems like maybe that's news worthy.

    I don't say that my way is the only way, there are many other opinions out there. I also know that you can't let everyone into debates because if you get 15 or so candidates the debates become unworkable (well now they're just a little puppet show for us). But that doesn't mean that we should limit it to 2. Our system is stable at 2 main parties because of the winner take all system in place. Fine. But we need to have healthy third parties waiting in the wings in case the main parties stop listening to the People. That way, they can be replaced when they no longer serve a purpose. It will continue that way because any party in power long enough will become corrupt and unresponsive to the People. So you have to have some mechanism by which one or both of the main parties can be replaced.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
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  4. #54
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    Re: What do you think of a Third Party in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by pro-bipartisan View Post
    I'm not saying I'm against it because I am not but does anyone else see the negative part that a candidate could become president with support from only 34% of he country if we had 3 major parties?
    Well half the people don't vote now, and the rest of the vote is pretty much 50/50 + noise. So essentially, right now the winning candidate has about ~25% of the votes from the total population of potential voters.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  5. #55
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    Re: What do you think of a Third Party in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Campaign finance is one way in which they do a very good job holding back third parties. Raising money become tough unless you already have a large sum of money to invest into campaigning. Which means you either come from one of the main parties with huge coffers or you're independently wealthy. That last part, they took out by restricting participation in debates. That's thanks to Ross Perot who was absolutely crazy, but rich enough to spend massive money on advertising and captured a significant portion of the vote because of it.
    While I agree that the cost of campaigning makes it tougher for a new party, any party can raise money all they want. Ross Perot was just self-centered and impatient.

    For instance, in the Bush/Kerry debate in Arizona I believe, the Libertarian and Green party Presidential candidates were arrested outside the debates. Did you hear that on the news? Presidential candidates at a Presidential candidate debate were arrested outside the debate. Seems like maybe that's news worthy.
    Yes, that's a big barrier. But you can't just let anyone in - you should limit it to people who have a shot. I know, that's a catch-22 though.

    I don't say that my way is the only way, there are many other opinions out there. I also know that you can't let everyone into debates because if you get 15 or so candidates the debates become unworkable (well now they're just a little puppet show for us). But that doesn't mean that we should limit it to 2. Our system is stable at 2 main parties because of the winner take all system in place. Fine. But we need to have healthy third parties waiting in the wings in case the main parties stop listening to the People. That way, they can be replaced when they no longer serve a purpose. It will continue that way because any party in power long enough will become corrupt and unresponsive to the People. So you have to have some mechanism by which one or both of the main parties can be replaced.
    I have no problem with that idea. I don't mind if the parties are replaced, I'm just saying there will never be more than two that dominate at a given time.

  6. #56
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    Re: What do you think of a Third Party in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    While I agree that the cost of campaigning makes it tougher for a new party, any party can raise money all they want. Ross Perot was just self-centered and impatient.
    It's very hard to start from scratch. Which may be ok if finance laws were open enough to allow those with low coffers to make the money necessary to effectively campaign.

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Yes, that's a big barrier. But you can't just let anyone in - you should limit it to people who have a shot. I know, that's a catch-22 though.
    While I understand the point, I think it would carry significantly more weight if the system was not set up against third party participation.

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    I have no problem with that idea. I don't mind if the parties are replaced, I'm just saying there will never be more than two that dominate at a given time.
    I'm not saying it will be stable at anything other than 2 major parties. Not with the winner take all electoral system we currently have. However, I do believe that to hold government more closely to the People there has to be mechanisms which can allow for the replacement of a pacified party.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  7. #57
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    Re: What do you think of a Third Party in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Its a silly discussion...we HAVE more than a thired party. We have MULTIPLE parties. Most of their platforms make their candidates unelectable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I voted "other" in the poll(and thank you for putting that option there, so many don't in their polls). We have third parties in this country, the reason they are not "strong" is because they do not represent the beliefs of very many people. The Libertarian party is the largest of the third parties(note, the Tea and Coffee parties do not count, as they do not have full platforms at this time), and has a membership that is about 1 % of either of the large parties(democratic party ~70 mil, repubs ~50 mil, Libertarians 500k). Just saying we need a strong third party is meaningless until we have one that actually is supported by a large portion of the people of this country.
    I agree, that's why I voted other in the poll. We already have multiple parties - Libertarian, Green, Modern Whig, and a Modern Progressive parties, they are just not popular with the majority of the country.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: What do you think of a Third Party in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Well half the people don't vote now, and the rest of the vote is pretty much 50/50 + noise. So essentially, right now the winning candidate has about ~25% of the votes from the total population of potential voters.
    So you want to cut that to 15%?

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    Re: What do you think of a Third Party in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by pro-bipartisan View Post
    So you want to cut that to 15%?
    I'm just saying that we already have lower than your original estimate electing our leaders. And if you allowed more open and equal participation; it may be possible to start to capture some of that 50% whom do not vote.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  10. #60
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    Re: What do you think of a Third Party in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Progressive86 View Post
    I think we do need a strong Third Party because it's something that'll keep the two major parties we have now honest.
    You need a one party system where people is involved in politics and issues instead of parties and politicians gossip and scandals and PR.

    Europe needs that too.
    Europe is illegally occupied by the US

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