View Poll Results: Do you think we need a Third Party in America?

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  • Yes, We do need a Third Party

    22 50.00%
  • No, We do not need a Third Party

    4 9.09%
  • I'm not sure

    5 11.36%
  • Other

    13 29.55%
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Thread: What do you think of a Third Party in the United States?

  1. #101
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    Re: What do you think of a Third Party in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    As I said, I'm all for third parties that have substantial public support.



    Than you will need to build a following larger than a fraction of 1% of the public, otherwise the press is not going to give more than a fraction of 1% of the news coverage.



    It might be helpful to look at how new parties have emerged and changed in the past. I don't know of a single one that did it without substantial public support. The more public support the greater the accessibility to the press.
    Trouble with this approach is that gaining public support for a 3rd party, in a system so ossified that no one actually believes there is any alternative to the two-party status quo, is next to impossible. If I wished to be active in such a setting, I would begin by concentrating on building public support for systematic reform of the electoral system, first at a municipal, then state, then national level. This kind of change can only begin from the grass roots.

    Once you have a pluralistic electoral system, you will get viable alternative parties.
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  2. #102
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    Re: What do you think of a Third Party in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    Trouble with this approach is that gaining public support for a 3rd party, in a system so ossified that no one actually believes there is any alternative to the two-party status quo, is next to impossible.
    Not only that, but it's difficult when the two parties adopt issues that third parties vote on. What the Democrats and GOP do is they adopt issues of smaller parties in order to get those voters into their party. Unfortunately, the two parties are so large that they retain these voters without doing anything on those issues. This is why so many environmentalists are members of the Democratic Party and not the Green Party - the Democrats have adopted most aspects of the Green Party but do very little about environmentalism compared to what the Green Party would do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    If I wished to be active in such a setting, I would begin by concentrating on building public support for systematic reform of the electoral system, first at a municipal, then state, then national level. This kind of change can only begin from the grass roots.

    Once you have a pluralistic electoral system, you will get viable alternative parties.
    You're right. Unfortunately, the two parties use their lawyers to challenge such laws, and courts tend to overturn this kind of electoral reform.

  3. #103
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    Re: What do you think of a Third Party in the United States?

    I'm not sure. I don't think we are ready for more options as a whole in society right now, as is we are bi-polar politically and most people don't consume enough news to really expand past the letter after a candidates name. I think if we continue to get substandard representation that *could* change, but if it did it won't be for another decade or so, I don't think we're at the tipping point yet. As well, our system is set to the advantage of two major parties, so unless they just really screw the pooch a third party will be a spoiler rather than a serious contender. So I am taking a wait and see approach as of right now.
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    Re: What do you think of a Third Party in the United States?

    Not only can only two parties survive - meaning a third party will only thrive by replacing one of the major two - but I think one of the major parties will have to self-destruct before a third one can replace it. I don't think a third party can replace a major one just by showing up and beating it. There needs to be some very serious turmoil. The last time a party ascended this way (the Republicans) it was in the midst of a brewing civil war.

  5. #105
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    Re: What do you think of a Third Party in the United States?

    I noticed a lot of libs want a third party. No doubt the obvious reason is to split the conservative vote.
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  6. #106
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    Re: What do you think of a Third Party in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    So, how would you do that?
    First and foremost would be the repealing of the horribly fascist McCain-Feingold law in total. While there was/is a problem with corporate sponsorship of political parties and candidates, that law did not address it. Furthermore, any mediocre regulation in there has recently been taken out. Thus it exists mostly as a restriction upon the rest of us. The individual should be unlimited, corporations and companies can be regulated. So remove restrictions upon things like campaign contributions, television, etc. on the individual. It would be reasonable to discuss installing restrictions on corporations and groups, but freeing the individual is first.

    I'd try to unrig the debates in the following ways
    Presidential debates would be run by the League of Women Voters again, take away the government control. In fact, it would maybe be best to remove all the debates from government control.
    Unscript the whole event. All those "town meeting" crap things they keep trying to shove down our throats is nothing more than one big huge song and dance. Watch them put a show on for us, pretend they're answering spontaneous questions. But the questions are rigged and the responses are nothing more than short stump speeches. No more setting the questions, candidates would not know the questions which will be asked. People who have questions to ask can take a number and a random number generator would select numbers when a new question needs to be asked. And lengthen response time. I know it's not possible to give a candidate 20 minutes to respond to each question. However, the stump speech answers do not help us at all. We need to see a thinking answer, and that's what I want. Unscripted questions with longer response time can give just that. That way we can really gauge if the person knows anything. Very important.
    Require at least 4 parties to be represented in the debates. You can make a hard limit too which can't be surpassed, like 6 or so; but at least 4.

    While I don't have any form of control out of this, I'd like to see more responsibility out of the press. Get rid of some of those political opinion shows. I get it, MSNBC likes Democrats, FOX likes Republicans...noted. Now stop! The political propaganda shows serve no purpose and do not inform and do not help. I'd rather start seeing actual political news. Maybe get experts to discuss certain topics. Have educational shows which go over various aspects of government and the basics on how things work (like the Fed, what they control, their mandate, what they're supposed to do, etc.). More information, more open discussion, a higher level of intellectual debate and consideration.

    Another thing I doubt would ever be implemented, but would be the best of all.....Instant Runoff Voting.
    Last edited by Ikari; 03-26-10 at 11:24 AM.
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  7. #107
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    Re: What do you think of a Third Party in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    First and foremost would be the repealing of the horribly fascist McCain-Feingold law in total. While there was/is a problem with corporate sponsorship of political parties and candidates, that law did not address it. Furthermore, any mediocre regulation in there has recently been taken out. Thus it exists mostly as a restriction upon the rest of us. The individual should be unlimited, corporations and companies can be regulated. So remove restrictions upon things like campaign contributions, television, etc. on the individual. It would be reasonable to discuss installing restrictions on corporations and groups, but freeing the individual is first.

    I'd try to unrig the debates in the following ways
    Presidential debates would be run by the League of Women Voters again, take away the government control. In fact, it would maybe be best to remove all the debates from government control.
    Unscript the whole event. All those "town meeting" crap things they keep trying to shove down our throats is nothing more than one big huge song and dance. Watch them put a show on for us, pretend they're answering spontaneous questions. But the questions are rigged and the responses are nothing more than short stump speeches. No more setting the questions, candidates would not know the questions which will be asked. People who have questions to ask can take a number and a random number generator would select numbers when a new question needs to be asked. And lengthen response time. I know it's not possible to give a candidate 20 minutes to respond to each question. However, the stump speech answers do not help us at all. We need to see a thinking answer, and that's what I want. Unscripted questions with longer response time can give just that. That way we can really gauge if the person knows anything. Very important.
    Require at least 4 parties to be represented in the debates. You can make a hard limit too which can't be surpassed, like 6 or so; but at least 4.

    While I don't have any form of control out of this, I'd like to see more responsibility out of the press. Get rid of some of those political opinion shows. I get it, MSNBC likes Democrats, FOX likes Republicans...noted. Now stop! The political propaganda shows serve no purpose and do not inform and do not help. I'd rather start seeing actual political news. Maybe get experts to discuss certain topics. Have educational shows which go over various aspects of government and the basics on how things work (like the Fed, what they control, their mandate, what they're supposed to do, etc.). More information, more open discussion, a higher level of intellectual debate and consideration.

    Another thing I doubt would ever be implemented, but would be the best of all.....Instant Runoff Voting.
    Best of luck to you Ikari with your endeavors! I think after all of that you would still find the largest hurdle remains, the lack of a party platform that appeals to a more then a marginal portion of the public.

    As sad as it is to say, I think our government accurately reflects where mainstream American's heads are at.
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  8. #108
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    Re: What do you think of a Third Party in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    First and foremost would be the repealing of the horribly fascist McCain-Feingold law in total.
    Agreed! Glad someone is with me on that.

    Presidential debates would be run by the League of Women Voters again, take away the government control. In fact, it would maybe be best to remove all the debates from government control.
    That makes sense too.

    Unscript the whole event.
    Also agree - but the participants from the major parties probably won't, and will stay out of the debates as a result.

    Require at least 4 parties to be represented in the debates. You can make a hard limit too which can't be surpassed, like 6 or so; but at least 4.
    While you can't compel them to attend, you can certainly say the debates are off unless four or more show up.

    While I don't have any form of control out of this, I'd like to see more responsibility out of the press. Get rid of some of those political opinion shows. I get it, MSNBC likes Democrats, FOX likes Republicans...noted. Now stop! The political propaganda shows serve no purpose and do not inform and do not help.
    Sure, but there's nothing we can do about that -except start another show.

    Another thing I doubt would ever be implemented, but would be the best of all.....Instant Runoff Voting.
    Now you're talking - reform to elections. That's what drives the party system. How about proportional representation, do you like that?

  9. #109
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    Re: What do you think of a Third Party in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Best of luck to you Ikari with your endeavors! I think after all of that you would still find the largest hurdle remains, the lack of a party platform that appeals to a more then a marginal portion of the public.
    I know there are still hurdles to clear, I just want to make it to those hurdles. I think by freeing up the system you can at least let parties prove themselves in a fair and open environment. You can have much better open competition this way and it will in the end benefit everyone. Even if a third party doesn't take over, in this manner pressure can still be exerted on the main parties to make them more responsive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    As sad as it is to say, I think our government accurately reflects where mainstream American's heads are at.
    I think our government accurately reflects where aristocratic Wallstreet and the Banking sector's heads are at.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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  10. #110
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    Re: What do you think of a Third Party in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I know there are still hurdles to clear, I just want to make it to those hurdles. I think by freeing up the system you can at least let parties prove themselves in a fair and open environment. You can have much better open competition this way and it will in the end benefit everyone. Even if a third party doesn't take over, in this manner pressure can still be exerted on the main parties to make them more responsive.

    I think our government accurately reflects where aristocratic Wallstreet and the Banking sector's heads are at.
    I would love to see us end our imperialistic military occupation throughout the world and address our real problems like climate change, affordable healthcare for all, and a return to progressive taxation, I just don't think mainstream American's are ready to go there with me.

    However, I support any changes to our current system to level the playing field for all candidates. So, I'm prepared to go that far with you!
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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