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Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous grounds

Should B&B owners be allowed to refuse gay couples?

  • Yes, they should be allowed to refuse anyone for any reason

    Votes: 48 59.3%

  • The should be allowed to refuse if it violates their religious beliefs

    Votes: 2 2.5%

  • They should be fined for discriminating against gays

    Votes: 11 13.6%

  • They should lose their B&B license for discriminating against gays

    Votes: 14 17.3%

  • Other, please explain

    Votes: 6 7.4%
  • Total voters
    81
Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

VanceMack said:
The second you see me strap on the spelling or grammar Nazi armband...you have my permission (no...my request) to shoot me.

There is a world of difference between letting go of something because it isnt useful and forcing them to disband because people dont like it. Saying let it go is too easy. Since we are in the mode of forcing people to accept all, well...isnt it time we legislated ALL groups that exist primarily to serve any bias or interest groups into oblivion?
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Sure?

+5 Characters.
 
Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

Hatuey said:
Sure?

+5 Characters.
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Im waiting to join the movement. I expect we should at any time see every other thread here proclaiming loud and proud to shut down every minority support and special interest group in the country...no...the WORLD...
 
Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

digsbe said:
I think they have a right to refuse them service if they don't want homosexuals there for religious reasons. However, they shouldn't be allowed to discriminate in all cases. They shouldn't be allowed to deny blacks or whites or anyone else service based on race.
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The exact same relegious values means only married couples are allowed also?
 
Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

VanceMack said:
Im waiting to join the movement. I expect we should at any time see every other thread here proclaiming loud and proud to shut down every minority support and special interest group in the country...no...the WORLD...
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Wait, you wanna make it so I can't take my women's only Muay Thai class now? Or workout at Curves? :shock:
 
Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

rivrrat said:
Wait, you wanna make it so I can't take my women's only Muay Thai class now? Or workout at Curves? :shock:
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I think someone earlier had said that it is a right to not be discriminated against. In such case...yeah, those would have to go.

Or we can honor private property rights.
 
Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

disneydude said:
So you are ok with restaurants refusing to serve black people, right?

Afterall...their business...their rules.
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Of course, you should be able to reserve the right to serve anyone....;)
With respect to the original topic:
If their religious belief bans them from allowing the abomination of homosexuality under their roof, (Leviticus 18:22) they are well within their rights to refuse service........;)
 
Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

Goldenboy219 said:
Of course. The question is about when.... How many people are we going to allow to be discriminated until the firm fails? How much hate and counter prejudiced are we going to allow to transpire until the firm fails?
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That would be up to the public and their patronage, or lack thereof.


What you fail to understand is that not everyone is you, and you are not everyone. Hate fuels hate, otherwise all of this "give peace a chance" jargon would have worked by now. When the terrorists crashed into the towers (because of hate), the majority of Americans were equally up in arms in hate as a natural reaction. Newton was spot on (not only within the realm of physics). For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
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No, not everyone is me. I never claimed they were. What I did claim is that if anyone allows what someone else does to turn them into a hateful person, then it's their own fault.

Therefore it had nothing to do about operating a business and all to do with ignorance.
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YES. And people are quite allowed to be ignorant. And they SHOULD be allowed to be.

If you do not like someone, give them ****ty service if you feel that strongly. To openly disrespect a person based on the feeling of moral superiority opens the door to hate and enemies. Repeating myself: there is no place for such behavior in society, especially business. The spillover effects will far outweigh fining a bad business owner for making discrimination part of his business practice.

Again.... Hate fuels hate, and the cost of spillover effects associated with such emotion far outweigh the benefits of allowing such practices to remain optional.
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What spillover? Are you trying to imply that if people are denied service somewhere, they could turn violent and hurt other people? And somehow this would be the fault of the business owner who denied them service?

Until someone gets hurt, killed and/or property gets destroyed. Then what? Is it then time for state involvement? :roll:
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Yeah, because THEN laws would be broken and actual damage would be done. Someone getting killed, hurt, or property damaged wouldn't be the fault of the discriminating business owner unless he was the one doing the hurting, killing and damaging.

This has absolutely nothing to do with business and everything to do with discrimination.
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Of course. It's about personal rights, personal property rights, and the rights of business owners regarding their personal property rights.

Until you can prove that by serving this gay couple, the firm in question would have reduced profitability; you are dead wrong. Again.... If they were talking about sucking **** and ass ****ing in the presence of others, it would be an entirely different scenario.
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Has nothing to do with reducing profitability. :confused:
 
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Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

rivrrat said:
Wait, you wanna make it so I can't take my women's only Muay Thai class now? Or workout at Curves? :shock:
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hey...'I' dont want that...but since thats the intent of the movement...then...

how about a compromise...you can still do your womens only workouts and they can have a beer, chip and dip dispenser with recliners so guys can join and watch...

(edit-how silly of me...so lesbian women can join and watch too...dont want to discriminate...)
 
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Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

VanceMack said:
hey...'I' dont want that...but since thats the intent of the movement...then...

how about a compromise...you can still do your womens only workouts and they can have a beer, chip and dip dispenser with recliners so guys can join and watch...

(edit-how silly of me...so lesbian women can join and watch too...dont want to discriminate...)
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I'm down. I mean, I'm sure a lot of people in this thread would agree because they wouldn't want to discriminate against us just because we are men.
 
Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

rivrrat said:
No, not everyone is me. I never claimed they were. What I did claim is that if anyone allows what someone else does to turn them into a hateful person, then it's their own fault.
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I never said it was not. But to act as though it does not exist until **** hits the fan is irresponsible. Once the hate mail and death threats begin, should government get involved? It seems optimal to me (IMHO) to diffuse such situations.

YES. And people are quite allowed to be ignorant. And they SHOULD be allowed to be.
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This is not a case of casual ignorance.

What spillover? Are you trying to imply that if people are denied service somewhere, they could turn violent and hurt other people? And somehow this would be the fault of the business owner who denied them service?
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Not just the people who were discriminated against, but the extreme folks who are actively engaged in such behavior. It is just not worth it.

Yeah, because THEN laws would be broken and actual damage would be done. Someone getting killed, hurt, or property damaged wouldn't be the fault of the discriminating business owner unless he was the one doing the hurting, killing and damaging.
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But why not take the necessary steps to prevent such ridiculous spillover effects? Do you know how the government diffused the violence, bloodshed, and massive political protests of the civil rights era?

Of course. It's about personal rights, personal property rights, and the rights of business owners regarding their personal property rights.
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They violated contract in which the gay couple had been booked and given a deposit. Not only did they violate their agreement, but they broke the law :
he Equality Act (Sexual Orientation) Regulations are secondary legislation in the United Kingdom, outlawing discrimination in the provision of goods, facilities, services, education and public functions on the grounds of sexual orientation.
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Equality Act (Sexual Orientation) Regulations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Has nothing to do with reducing profitability. :confused:
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Then this has absolutely nothing to do with "the rights of a business" hence is a violation of British law. So until you can prove that by accommodating them, the firm would have reduced their profitability..... your opinion on the matter is meaningless.

Yes we know: Rirrat does what she wants:2wave:
 
Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

Goldenboy219 said:
I never said it was not. But to act as though it does not exist until **** hits the fan is irresponsible. Once the hate mail and death threats begin, should government get involved? It seems optimal to me (IMHO) to diffuse such situations.



This is not a case of casual ignorance.



Not just the people who were discriminated against, but the extreme folks who are actively engaged in such behavior. It is just not worth it.



But why not take the necessary steps to prevent such ridiculous spillover effects? Do you know how the government diffused the violence, bloodshed, and massive political protests of the civil rights era?



They violated contract in which the gay couple had been booked and given a deposit. Not only did they violate their agreement, but they broke the law :

Equality Act (Sexual Orientation) Regulations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Then this has absolutely nothing to do with "the rights of a business" hence is a violation of British law. So until you can prove that by accommodating them, the firm would have reduced their profitability..... your opinion on the matter is meaningless.

Yes we know: Rirrat does what she wants:2wave:
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You are arguing though for proactive law in case something bad "might" happen that were illegal. This is the same problem I have with gun banners, their core argument is "something bad might happen", this is the same setup for many onerous regulations. Let's face it, freedom can be a bitch, but I would rather have the freedom to choose and enjoy my rights knowing there are consequences than have to suffer some tyrannical movement seeking to infringe upon me for any reason they can dig up.
 
Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

LaMidRighter said:
You are arguing though for proactive law in case something bad "might" happen that were illegal. This is the same problem I have with gun banners, their core argument is "something bad might happen", this is the same setup for many onerous regulations. Let's face it, freedom can be a bitch, but I would rather have the freedom to choose and enjoy my rights knowing there are consequences than possibly suffering some tyrannical movement seeking to infringe upon me for any reason they can dig up.
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You negated your argument. The bold highlights it i added possibly for accuracy.

This is already the law in GB. If their behavior was disruptive to the business (leading to a decrease in potential profits) then the manager/owner has grounds to dismiss them from the premise.

Also(edit): The might happen is quite the reality. From the OP's source:
"These people are very organised and we have already been inundated with abusive calls and emails. It is really sad that people act like that."
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Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

Goldenboy219 said:
You negated your argument. The bold highlights it i added possibly for accuracy.

This is already the law in GB. If their behavior was disruptive to the business (leading to a decrease in potential profits) then the manager/owner has grounds to dismiss them from the premise.
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Actually, the argument stands within context. The "something bad can happen" in this case is someone might be unfairly discriminated against, well, sure that sucks and I would not do business with that company, I would vote with my patronage. Again, there are worse things in life than being excluded and I certainly don't want to do business with people who don't like me, life isn't fair.
 
Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

LaMidRighter said:
Actually, the argument stands within context. The "something bad can happen" in this case is someone might be unfairly discriminated against, well, sure that sucks and I would not do business with that company, I would vote with my patronage. Again, there are worse things in life than being excluded and I certainly don't want to do business with people who don't like me, life isn't fair.
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Nope! The bad that can happen in this case is some pro gay activist throws a brick through their window (at the very least).

Also; your argument holds no grounds because it is violates GB law.
 
Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

Goldenboy219 said:
Nope! The bad that can happen in this case is some pro gay activist throws a brick through their window (at the very least).

Also; your argument holds no grounds because it is violates GB law.
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I'm not talking about a specific law, I am speaking to why the law should not exist, of course, it's the UK so it is their business. "Bad things could happen" because of someone else's reaction is insufficient, the person throwing the brick is responsible for that action, not the business owner.......whether or not he deserved it.
 
Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religiou gro

Discrimination is not necessarily a bad thing. A business such as a bed and breakfast (B & B) has all its clientèle to consider and respect.
If these people, paying customers at a B & B object to others who are obnoxious or rowdy, then their wishes must be respected and the B & B owners must discriminate.
But two minority group men may not be obnoxious, and I doubt if most normal frequenters of a B & B would object.

But, I do not like the idea of our government forcing their higher morality on others, even if they are right and the people are wrong..

The problem is, I believe, is that some B & B operators think that their customers would object to catering to homosexuals, and I can see their point.
Maybe we should cool it for a time and allow the people to catch up.
Progress too fast is counter-productive.
 
Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religiou gro

earthworm said:
The problem is, I believe, is that some B & B operators think that their customers would object to catering to homosexuals, and I can see their point.
Maybe we should cool it for a time and allow the people to catch up.
Progress too fast is counter-productive.
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So what you are saying is that we should just leave it alone, ignore it and hope things will slowly change. I think that's the cowards way out. If we as a society see discrimination and wrong in this world it is up to us as individuals to stand up for what is right. If we don't...who will. If we don't as people chose to do what is right, we will never move beyond where we are now. Just think of how different a society we would have as far as race relations if more whites had stood up and said...wait, this is wrong. Let's do what is right.
 
Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

LaMidRighter said:
Are you? The state doesn't "benefit" from the business, it taxes it. So again, the state is not a partner in any real world way yet it legislates at whim to encroach on business decisions constantly. You are intentionally not addressing the argument of the state's compelling interest in forcing commerce, you are arguing for state compulsion and THEN assigning the state a role in the business.

To condense things; The state has no image investment in the business, the business does, the state takes no loss, the business does, the state takes no risk, the business does. But at the end of your theory the state has no interest in the business except taxation, yet somehow magically the businesses decisions reflect on the state? Again, how do you come to that conclusion when it is patently obvious that the state is a hinderance at best and a nuisance at worst? It has been explained already that bigotry isn't tolerable, and that as a society we would shut the business down using market factors, AND that bigotry is a provable failure in business.......yet you still defer to government authority, you should then have some proof of compelling interest past "it's the right thing to do", or "because we can't accept........." the onus is on you to prove why private property rights(and these do include private business) are trumped by government authority.
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What a huge strawman. My argument remains on the fact that a state which taxes people for legal business ventures is consenting and endorsing whatever activities they carry out through this business if it knows about them and does not step in. If the state were to legalize prostitution and tax it, the state would be consenting and playing an active role in consenting and endorsing prostitution. Regardless of your huge red herring about the role of a government and whether it is a nuisance or not, whether it is an active partner in ' any real world way', taxation gives legitimacy to a business and demonstrates what a state finds acceptable or not.
 
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Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

Hatuey said:
What a huge strawman. My argument remains on the fact that a state which taxes people for legal business ventures is consenting and endorsing whatever activities they carry out through this business if it knows about them and does not step in. If the state were to legalize prostitution and tax it, the state would be consenting and playing an active role in consenting and endorsing prostitution. Regardless of your huge red herring about the role of a government and whether it is a nuisance or not, whether it is an active partner in ' any real world way',taxation gives legitimacy to a business and demonstrates what a state finds acceptable or not.
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Strawman? Hardly. I have provided plenty of reasons why private property rights should be upheld, you have not provided any solid logic to support your position. Logically people who don't pay for a business, rather confiscate every dime it can get from that business should not be dictating policy unless it is to protect against immediate danger.
 
Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

LaMidRighter said:
Strawman? Hardly. I have provided plenty of reasons why private property rights should be upheld, you have not provided any solid logic to support your position. Logically people who don't pay for a business, rather confiscate every dime it can get from that business should not be dictating policy unless it is to protect against immediate danger.
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Businesses are not free to reap the benefits of operating in our society without complying with the laws that our society imposes. We as a society have a right to say that we do not support discrimination. If the business doesn't want to comply, they can move to a country where discrimination is permitted.
 
Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

LaMidRighter said:
Strawman? Hardly.
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Entirely. Show me where I said any of these things:

"because we can't accept........."
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"it's the right thing to do"
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Or were you quoting somebody else and projecting those quotes on to me? Thus making it a strawman?

I have provided plenty of reasons why private property rights should be upheld, you have not provided any solid logic to support your position. Logically people who don't pay for a business, rather confiscate every dime it can get from that business should not be dictating policy unless it is to protect against immediate danger.
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Translation: LMR has nothing to else to provide to the thread so he complains about people being stupid in true Libertarian fashion.

I laid out my argument. If somebody runs a business and this business is taxed by the government, the government endorses the policies of the business by legitimization through taxation. It is the reason illegal drugs are not taxed while legally sold drugs are.
 
Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

LaMidRighter said:
I'm not talking about a specific law, I am speaking to why the law should not exist, of course, it's the UK so it is their business. "Bad things could happen" because of someone else's reaction is insufficient, the person throwing the brick is responsible for that action, not the business owner.......whether or not he deserved it.
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But if the business owner acted within the realm of the law, **** like that is far less likely to happen.

Similarly: If the business owner did not act like a bigoted fool, **** like that is far less likely to happen.

This reminds me of the sister of the girl i am dating. She went to the Parisian red light district with three of her GF's and some drunk guy punched her and another girl in the face. When she called her father complaining and crying, he yelled, "what the **** are you doing in the Paris red light @ 2:30 in the morning." She screamed back violently, "i am a grown woman and should be able to walk anywhere i want without worrying about getting punched in the face." Her father then replied, "of course you should be able to. But now you are on the phone crying to me because you made a stupid decision."

It works both ways. Life is not always fair. The law in question most likely was also intended to prevent further outlash from such incidents. Not only to appease the good citizens who are homosexual, but to keep the extreme sides from killing each other and innocent people in the process.

You at the very least have to admit: if they just let them stay there, or maybe even gave them ****ty service (in an attempt to disguise their bigotry), we would not even be arguing about this very subject at this very moment :2razz:
 
Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

Hatuey said:
Translation: LMR has nothing to else to provide to the thread so he complains about people being stupid in true Libertarian fashion.
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Watch it slick :boxer

:2razz:
 
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