View Poll Results: Should B&B owners be allowed to refuse gay couples?

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  • Yes, they should be allowed to refuse anyone for any reason

    65 59.63%
  • The should be allowed to refuse if it violates their religious beliefs

    3 2.75%
  • They should be fined for discriminating against gays

    16 14.68%
  • They should lose their B&B license for discriminating against gays

    19 17.43%
  • Other, please explain

    6 5.50%
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Thread: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous grounds

  1. #381
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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    I'm wondering I own acre put it up for sale to the public should I be allowed to refuse sale to certain people like gay people?
    Actually, this brings up an interesting point. Let's suppose that instead of refusing to sell said property to gays, you refused to sell said property to the KKK because their intention is to erect a recruiting center on the land. Certainly, your objection to selling them the property is principled but discriminatory nonetheless. Should the government force you to sell them the property?

  2. #382
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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Quote Originally Posted by Gander View Post
    Actually, this brings up an interesting point. Let's suppose that instead of refusing to sell said property to gays, you refused to sell said property to the KKK because their intention is to erect a recruiting center on the land. Certainly, your objection to selling them the property is principled but discriminatory nonetheless. Should the government force you to sell them the property?
    Both in the UK and in the USA he can sell to who he likes so what you say has no relevance.
    George Monboit "Neoliberalism is inherently incompatible with democracy, as people will always rebel against the austerity and fiscal tyranny it prescribes. Something has to give, and it must be the people. This is the true road to serfdom: disinventing democracy on behalf of the elite."

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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Quote Originally Posted by Gander View Post
    I don't see why not. You own the property. Just because I find your terms distasteful doesn't mean I should impose my morality on you.
    Once more, I am very glad that your views died out in mainstream politics all those years ago.

    After all, equality under the law? Yeah, a completely foreign concept here.

  4. #384
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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa View Post
    Both in the UK and in the USA he can sell to who he likes so what you say has no relevance.
    Um, NO. And it hasn't been that way for 50 years or so, since restrictive covenants were struck down.

    Man! Can't you guys tell the difference between the real world and your fantasy world?

  5. #385
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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa View Post
    Both in the UK and in the USA he can sell to who he likes so what you say has no relevance.
    Can he advertise the fact? Can he say, "I won't sell this property to blacks/gays/racists/etc.?"

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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
    Once more, I am very glad that your views died out in mainstream politics all those years ago.

    After all, equality under the law? Yeah, a completely foreign concept here.
    Under the law, yes. No one is disputing that. But what does my selling cupcakes to someone have to do with "equality under the law"? If I only want to sell my cupcakes to certain people, why can't I? Under what provision does someone gain the right to be served by me against my will?

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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
    Um, NO. And it hasn't been that way for 50 years or so, since restrictive covenants were struck down.

    Man! Can't you guys tell the difference between the real world and your fantasy world?

    In the UK you can sell your property to whoever you want. I assumed because we are tighter in business terms that the US would also allow that.

    I am sorry my ignorance of the US laws has raised your wrath.
    George Monboit "Neoliberalism is inherently incompatible with democracy, as people will always rebel against the austerity and fiscal tyranny it prescribes. Something has to give, and it must be the people. This is the true road to serfdom: disinventing democracy on behalf of the elite."

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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
    With you, I agree. However, there certainly are plenty of racists who want to discriminate on the basis of their bigotry and not from any desire for a smaller government.
    It doesn't matter their reasons why. It could be because the business person despises redheads. It could be because they fear men and only want to serve women. It could be because they're racist, sexist bastards. The reason is irrelevant. It's THEIR property.

    The problem is that your definition of "private property" is so broad that it would include a private bus company, a private airline, and every single business that is privately owned. The law, however, holds that once you open your property to the public at large it is no longer "private."
    Yes, every single business would apply. ALL of them. What the law holds is irrelevant. What we're saying is that the law should be changed and I've yet to see a logical, consistent argument for why it shouldn't that isn't based on "we can't allow big meanies".

    As pointed out earlier, if you want to open a business that is available only to those you invite in (like a club) you can discriminate. If you want the benefits of being a member of the United States of America (such as obtaining business from American citizens) then you have to go by the rules of THAT club instead.
    Why does someone lose rights when they open a business? How can you logically force someone to serve someone else and still maintain the tenets of the Constitution?

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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    I'm wondering I own acre put it up for sale to the public should I be allowed to refuse sale to certain people like gay people?
    Given it will be illegal to explicitly state you are not selling it to the particular party because they are gay and it is impossible to conclude them being gay is going to "lower your price", you will not have much success in the bold statement.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
    Once more, I am very glad that your views died out in mainstream politics all those years ago.

    After all, equality under the law? Yeah, a completely foreign concept here.
    The concept of "equality under the law" is not at issue here, as we are discussing the concept of private property.

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