View Poll Results: Should B&B owners be allowed to refuse gay couples?

Voters
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  • Yes, they should be allowed to refuse anyone for any reason

    65 59.63%
  • The should be allowed to refuse if it violates their religious beliefs

    3 2.75%
  • They should be fined for discriminating against gays

    16 14.68%
  • They should lose their B&B license for discriminating against gays

    19 17.43%
  • Other, please explain

    6 5.50%
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Thread: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous grounds

  1. #291
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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    For reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with business.
    Well of course. That goes without saying.

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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    Some of us are advocating that the law be changed.
    Then which aspects of discrimination are you willing to accept? Which groups are you happy to see discriminated against, and which not?

    Do you feel that the right of individual business-owners to operate their commerce as they see fit, however discriminatory that may be, trumps the rights of every citizen to receive equal and equitable treatment when they participate in the economy?

    Personally I'm happy for society, in the form of the government, to intervene to ensure that all citizens receive such equal treatment when the free-market system clearly can't and won't guarantee impartial and non-prejudiced treatment.
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  3. #293
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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    Then which aspects of discrimination are you willing to accept? Which groups are you happy to see discriminated against, and which not?
    Any 'groups'. Any person. For any reason.

    Do you feel that the right of individual business-owners to operate their commerce as they see fit, however discriminatory that may be, trumps the rights of every citizen to receive equal and equitable treatment when they participate in the economy?
    I don't believe that any citizen has any 'right' to receive equal treatment by anyone except the government.

    A business owner should have the right to serve and refuse to serve whomever they wish for whatever reason they wish. (and hire and refuse to hire) No one has a right to be served by someone else. A business owner discriminating against someone (such as someone not dressed properly) isn't violating that person's "right" to be served by them since no such right exists. I do not have any "right" to force someone else to serve me against their will.

    Additionally, no one has the right to be on someone's property against their wishes. And the business owner does own the property of their business. If we can throw people off of our property, such as our home, including law enforcement without a warrant or just cause, then why the hell can't a business owner do the same with their business? Why do they lose their property rights simply by opening a business?


    Personally I'm happy for society, in the form of the government, to intervene to ensure that all citizens receive such equal treatment when the free-market system clearly can't and won't guarantee impartial and non-prejudiced treatment.
    And I'm not happy about a society that forces a business owner to give up their property rights.

    No one has any 'right' to impartial and non-prejudiced treatment.

  4. #294
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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    Any 'groups'. Any person. For any reason.


    I don't believe that any citizen has any 'right' to receive equal treatment by anyone except the government.

    A business owner should have the right to serve and refuse to serve whomever they wish for whatever reason they wish. (and hire and refuse to hire) No one has a right to be served by someone else. A business owner discriminating against someone (such as someone not dressed properly) isn't violating that person's "right" to be served by them since no such right exists. I do not have any "right" to force someone else to serve me against their will.

    Additionally, no one has the right to be on someone's property against their wishes. And the business owner does own the property of their business. If we can throw people off of our property, such as our home, including law enforcement without a warrant or just cause, then why the hell can't a business owner do the same with their business? Why do they lose their property rights simply by opening a business?



    And I'm not happy about a society that forces a business owner to give up their property rights.

    No one has any 'right' to impartial and non-prejudiced treatment.
    You seem very keen on protecting the "rights" of business and property owners, but reluctant to recognise any other kinds of rights. Indeed you place any rights, other than those of property, in quote marks. This suggests that you seem sceptical of anyone having a claim to a right other than those conferred by material ownership.

    In the interests of clarity, what rights do you believe exist? What makes the rights you seem to recognise valid, and those you refuse to recognise, invalid?
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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
    Who cares about scripture? Scripture has no place in our laws.
    Way to miss the point.

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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    You seem very keen on protecting the "rights" of business and property owners, but reluctant to recognise any other kinds of rights. Indeed you place any rights, other than those of property, in quote marks. This suggests that you seem sceptical of anyone having a claim to a right other than those conferred by material ownership.

    In the interests of clarity, what rights do you believe exist? What makes the rights you seem to recognise valid, and those you refuse to recognise, invalid?
    She's being consistent with her sovereignty argument regarding abortion. Property is an extension of your self, so as rivrrat argues that she should be able to evict an unwanted ZEF, so to should she be able to evict any other person from any of her property for any or no reason.

    You can abort if you don't like the race of your unborn, so it follows that you should be able to remove someone from your land if you don't like their race, sex, religion, or any reason at all.

    I personally take no issue with first term abortion, so I'm willing to sign onto her argument. When there's a way to tell if your child is gay, women will be able to abort if they don't want a gay child; so to should people be able to kick gays or any group off their land simply out of personal religious bias.
    Last edited by Jerry; 03-30-10 at 08:55 PM.

  7. #297
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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    You seem very keen on protecting the "rights" of business and property owners, but reluctant to recognise any other kinds of rights. Indeed you place any rights, other than those of property, in quote marks. This suggests that you seem sceptical of anyone having a claim to a right other than those conferred by material ownership.

    In the interests of clarity, what rights do you believe exist? What makes the rights you seem to recognise valid, and those you refuse to recognise, invalid?
    The rights that exist are the ones my society has defined for us and protect for us on our behalf.

    All other rights expressed are 'rights'. And the ones I disagree with that my society protects are 'rights' too. LOL

    Anywho, no one has any right not to be offended by someone else's actions. No one has any right to be served by someone else against their will.

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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    The rights that exist are the ones my society has defined for us and protect for us on our behalf.

    All other rights expressed are 'rights'. And the ones I disagree with that my society protects are 'rights' too. LOL

    Anywho, no one has any right not to be offended by someone else's actions. No one has any right to be served by someone else against their will.
    Just wait until a prostitute refuses to serve someone because she doesn't like their race, then we're going to have all the same people on this thread sticking up for the John and trying to force that prostitute to have sex with anyone who walks through the door. Rape FTW

  9. #299
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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    The rights that exist are the ones my society has defined for us and protect for us on our behalf.
    Well, the society of the United Kingdom has defined the right not to be discriminated against on the basis of sexual orientation. In the US society has defined that you have the right not to be discriminated against on the basis of race. You clearly don't like this, which is your prerogative. Are you saying that the only rights you recognise are those stipulated in the US Bill of Rights?

    All other rights expressed are 'rights'. And the ones I disagree with that my society protects are 'rights' too. LOL
    Well, at least that's consistent.

    Anywho, no one has any right not to be offended by someone else's actions. No one has any right to be served by someone else against their will.
    You cannot grant or deny the right to be offended. I will be offended by whatever the hell makes me so. I will also maintain that Government may and must use legislation where necessary to ensure we do not have a society that victimises, discriminates unfairly or otherwise attacks the equal treatment of its citizens.

    I have no doubt you argue and act consistently in accordance with your beliefs, I just don't share them.
    Last edited by Andalublue; 03-31-10 at 06:15 AM.
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  10. #300
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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    Well, the society of the United Kingdom has defined the right not to be discriminated against on the basis of sexual orientation. In the US society has defined that you have the right not to be discriminated against on the basis of race. You clearly don't like this, which is your prerogative. Are you saying that the only rights you recognise are those stipulated in the US Bill of Rights?
    I recognize that we have all the rights my country has granted us. I just don't agree with the stupid ones. Like the 'right to be served by someone against their will'. Or the 'right to invade private property against the will of the owner.'



    You cannot grant or deny the right to be offended. I will be offended by whatever the hell makes me so. I will also maintain that Government may and must use legislation where necessary to ensure we do not have a society that victimises, discriminates unfairly or otherwise attacks the equal treatment of its citizens.
    I agree the government should not discriminate. But individual citizens have no 'right' to expect that from other individual citizens. If I don't want you on my property for ANY reason, I can make you leave. By pretty much any means necessary depending on the state. That shouldn't change just because I own a business. I should not LOSE rights when I own a business and every other person in the country should not gain the right to be served by me against my will.

    The reason I used the 'right not to be offended' is because that's what this is all about. Someone gets denied service somewhere and their wittle feelings get hurt so they have to bitch, moan, complain and use our court systems to try and FORCE someone to be nicer to them.

    It's ****ing retarded.

    I have no doubt you argue and act consistently in accordance with your beliefs, I just don't share them.
    Of course I do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Just wait until a prostitute refuses to serve someone because she doesn't like their race, then we're going to have all the same people on this thread sticking up for the John and trying to force that prostitute to have sex with anyone who walks through the door. Rape FTW
    LOL Exactly.

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