View Poll Results: Should B&B owners be allowed to refuse gay couples?

Voters
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  • Yes, they should be allowed to refuse anyone for any reason

    65 59.63%
  • The should be allowed to refuse if it violates their religious beliefs

    3 2.75%
  • They should be fined for discriminating against gays

    16 14.68%
  • They should lose their B&B license for discriminating against gays

    19 17.43%
  • Other, please explain

    6 5.50%
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Thread: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous grounds

  1. #231
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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    All in all, I have zero problems with most religions (in fact, I was raised Catholic and the vast majority of my family is Catholic). So when I make smarmy comments like that, it's typically in jest. Less it's about Scientology, then it's probably serious. I hate Scientology.
    It can be hard to tell, some of the atheists on this site are so in your face about it and make it a point to take shots at believer.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  2. #232
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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    All good reasons, but be careful with (3) bigots are creative when it comes to their prejudices, including how to apply them to any ambiguity in an argument. They may equate their hatred to the "atmosphere".
    I left it open for the sake of ambiguity. Reason be, there are some who will draw conclusions on why their steak is taking so long to be served as a basis of bigotry. But, we have to consider why someone would draw that conclusion in the first place? Bigotry and hate only fuel each other. It is the governments responsibility to distinguish it if the scenario to do so presents itself.

    I don't want to empower government period. My concepts are based on my principles, even though bigots make me sick I fully defend their rights to be non-inclusionary and stupid, it's not agreement, it's principle.
    This is not the same as allowing someone to be a hater. Allowing firms to operate in this manner will in fact create ripple effects across their respective market and society itself.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  3. #233
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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    I left it open for the sake of ambiguity. Reason be, there are some who will draw conclusions on why their steak is taking so long to be served as a basis of bigotry. But, we have to consider why someone would draw that conclusion in the first place? Bigotry and hate only fuel each other. It is the governments responsibility to distinguish it if the scenario to do so presents itself.
    How in the hell? The government under your assertation is being given arbitrary power to do whatever the hell it wants for whatever reason.



    This is not the same as allowing someone to be a hater. Allowing firms to operate in this manner will in fact create ripple effects across their respective market and society itself.
    The government cannot "allow" one to think, act, or make decisions for themselves, it's not within their powers. In fact our social contract holds that we allow the government whatever power it gets. Unfortunately we've allowed the government to become too powerful through attrition and indifference, but they don't allow anything we allow them whatever leeway they get.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  4. #234
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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    How in the hell? The government under your assertation is being given arbitrary power to do whatever the hell it wants for whatever reason.
    You have to give examples or some sort of hypothesis with assumptions.

    The government cannot "allow" one to think, act, or make decisions for themselves, it's not within their powers. In fact our social contract holds that we allow the government whatever power it gets. Unfortunately we've allowed the government to become too powerful through attrition and indifference, but they don't allow anything we allow them whatever leeway they get.
    While i agree that the size and scope of the Federal Government is frightening. This is one instance in which it can serve a purpose.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  5. #235
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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    You have to give examples or some sort of hypothesis with assumptions.



    While i agree that the size and scope of the Federal Government is frightening. This is one instance in which it can serve a purpose.
    Here is the thing, if it we could trust a government to not expand itself I could give the licensed private business argument more credence, but as we have seen historically regulation leads to further regulation, it never stops at simply what is necessary and proper. As is I can give a minimal merit to very limited regulation when based in provable public interest such as health and immediate public safety. We have agreed I feel that discrimination is wrong and a terrible business practice, however I don't feel that compulsary laws such as smoking bans, anti-discrimination, zoning, etc. do not meet necessary and proper and in fact treat government as a de facto partner in business.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  6. #236
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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Smoking bans truly serve a purpose considering the nearly half a million deaths caused (yearly) by tobacco alone. What does get a little silly is if smoking is not allowed at all in establishments.

    Back to the subject: British law negates the ability to say on your website, advertisement, etc... that you are operating an anti-gay/black/white/jewish/muslim/etc... establishment.

    What do you think of this synthesis? Firms can discriminate all that they want, they just have to actively advertise that they will not serve the particular people. Kind of like: under 21 no entry or womens only gym.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  7. #237
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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Smoking bans truly serve a purpose considering the nearly half a million deaths caused (yearly) by tobacco alone. What does get a little silly is if smoking is not allowed at all in establishments.
    Sure, every law serves a purpose of some kind, whether that purpose is greater than freedom and choice is the question.

    Back to the subject: British law negates the ability to say on your website, advertisement, etc... that you are operating an anti-gay/black/white/jewish/muslim/etc... establishment.

    What do you think of this synthesis? Firms can discriminate all that they want, they just have to actively advertise that they will not serve the particular people. Kind of like: under 21 no entry or womens only gym.
    See, I would be okay with that compromise. You are free to engage in offensive business practices that will kill your bottom line........as long as you are upfront and honest about it.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  8. #238
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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Quote Originally Posted by MyOwnDrum View Post
    This is in England where a Christian B&B owner refused a homosexual couple accommodation. Should this be allowed or not? For those of you who haven't visited the UK, B&Bs are much more common over there and American style motels are rare. Many, many homeowners supplement their incomes by operating B&Bs in their homes.

    Should they be forced to take in gay couples if it is against their religious beliefs?

    Gay couple turned away from B&B by Christian owners | World news | The Guardian
    What does the law say?
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  9. #239
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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    What does the law say?
    The law says that you may not discriminate....

    "The Sexual Orientation Regulations 2007 make it unlawful for a person providing goods, facilities or services to members of the public to directly or indirectly discriminate (or victimise) on the grounds of sexual orientation in the provision or non-provision of such goods, facilities or services, or the terms upon which they are offered. This is regardless of whether or not the goods, facilities or services are provided free of charge. This covers a wide range of public and private services, including important areas such as healthcare, insurance, and the provision of hotel or holiday accommodation.¨

    Your rights - Discrimination in the Provision of Goods and Services

    There are exceptions (see link) but none of them cover this case.
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  10. #240
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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
    Ah, why didn't you tell me you were one of those who denied science and pretends people don't choose their sexual orientation? That changes everything.

    I have a constitutional right to be naked too, but not in a store.
    Wait...wait...wait...so...science has found the gay gene? Liar...

    Oh...no...the 'science' that says if your fourth finger is longer than your middle...

    Or the science that says unlike all other mammals, somehow two peopole of the same sex have found a way to survive and thrive (procreate) from an evolutionary perspective....

    Say it again correctly...because it supports your choice, you want to BELIEVE that science proves it 'right'. At least then you would be honest.
    Last edited by VanceMack; 03-26-10 at 03:53 PM.

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