View Poll Results: Should B&B owners be allowed to refuse gay couples?

Voters
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  • Yes, they should be allowed to refuse anyone for any reason

    65 59.63%
  • The should be allowed to refuse if it violates their religious beliefs

    3 2.75%
  • They should be fined for discriminating against gays

    16 14.68%
  • They should lose their B&B license for discriminating against gays

    19 17.43%
  • Other, please explain

    6 5.50%
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Thread: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous grounds

  1. #201
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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    No, your "what if" and "this MIGHT happen" statements aren't much of an argument for infringing on the rights of business owners. Hell, even your suggestion that business owners just give them shoddy service violates your "what if" and "this might happen" slippery slopes. Giving them shoddy service could hurt their feelings too, and then piss off the people they tell about it and result in someone throwing a brick through their window. So, we can't allow a business to give shoddy service to someone. I mean, just think of what MIGHT happen if they did.
    Nope! I believe you are intentionally missing the point (hopefully). By disallowing someone the ability to run their business in a bigoted manner, you are not.... I repeat.... you are not impeding their ability to run their business according to the central theme of market orientated entrepreneurship.

    It is to max profits. Not to be a bigot if i so chose. You can do that on your own watch if that's what makes you tick.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  2. #202
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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I mean, people can keep saying this and I'll keep responding the same way. This thread isn't about the law, it's asked should they be able to.
    And the only reply i have been given (except for LMR) is that firms should deny services because..... drum roll please..... They want to

    Not being able to operate your business in a bigoted manner does not impede your ability to operate your business. Remember Ikari, the premise behind starting a business is profit. Letting your freak flag fly means jack **** in this regard.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  3. #203
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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    You argue as though one cannot have property rights without the right to be a bigot. I however do not view the two to be mutually exclusive. Logically, what are reasons not to serve a person(s) when you have a business?
    Point a) If one aspect of your business can be regulated arbitrarily for reasoning other than what is absolutely necessary and proper, then all of them can. b) There is no logical reason to bring bigotry into a business, I have conceded that throughout, however I don't believe in protecting people from themselves. If someone wants to do something ill advised to make a stand for a long dead concept I would advise against it, but still respect their rights to be an idiot.

    1.) They do not have the means to pay
    2.) By serving them, you are losing out on other more profitable clients
    3.) Their presence is disrupting your atmosphere
    4.) They are competitors looking to steal your plan/model/idea.
    5.) You are liable for the actions they take during or remotely after
    All good reasons, but be careful with (3) bigots are creative when it comes to their prejudices, including how to apply them to any ambiguity in an argument. They may equate their hatred to the "atmosphere".

    Are you saying that it is logically acceptable to deny service based on sexuality so that government does not intervene in your ability to conduct business in the manner(s) listed above? If so, good luck making that case.
    I'm not equating the two in any way.



    Except if you happen to agree with it
    I don't want to empower government period. My concepts are based on my principles, even though bigots make me sick I fully defend their rights to be non-inclusionary and stupid, it's not agreement, it's principle.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  4. #204
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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Its quite simple. The Constitution talks about rights given to individuals, not businesses or corporations (but then again...certain activists on the Supreme Court want to believe that corporations are people)...
    The bolded part shows you aren't ready for a constitutional debate. Businesses are owned by people, guess you've never heard of a sole proprietership. Corporations are owned by a large group of people.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  5. #205
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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    And the only reply i have been given (except for LMR) is that firms should deny services because..... drum roll please..... They want to
    Because that's precisely the answer. It's their business, if they want to refuse service to anyone they wish for whatever reason they wish; they should be free to do so. It's their business.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Not being able to operate your business in a bigoted manner does not impede your ability to operate your business. Remember Ikari, the premise behind starting a business is profit.
    I don't care how well their company does. Yes, behind business is profit which is why given the choice most companies wouldn't discriminate in that manner anyway. And the ones that do will not do as well. And if you invoke enough consumer response so they boycott a company with bad business practices such as excluding gays or blacks; the company goes away. Or changes their business model to recapture customers. Problem solved.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  6. #206
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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    And the only reply i have been given (except for LMR) is that firms should deny services because..... drum roll please..... They want to

    Not being able to operate your business in a bigoted manner does not impede your ability to operate your business. Remember Ikari, the premise behind starting a business is profit. Letting your freak flag fly means jack **** in this regard.
    Should businesses be allowed to demand that citizens who carry fireamrs legally be denied access to their places of business?

  7. #207
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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Should businesses be allowed to demand that citizens who carry fireamrs legally be denied access to their places of business?
    Not comparable. Businesses can put restrictions on their guests in many ways, so long as they are not discriminatory. A theater can say you can't bring in outside food, and a nightclub can keep you out if you're dressed like a farmer, for instance.

    You choose whether to bring your weapon; you don't choose whether to be gay or straight or black or white or handicapped or foreign.

  8. #208
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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
    Not comparable. Businesses can put restrictions on their guests in many ways, so long as they are not discriminatory. A theater can say you can't bring in outside food, and a nightclub can keep you out if you're dressed like a farmer, for instance.

    You choose whether to bring your weapon; you don't choose whether to be gay or straight or black or white or handicapped or foreign.
    I totally understand. Denying access to a consumer based on them practicing a constitutional right...OK...based on sexual choice? not OK!!!

  9. #209
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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    I totally understand. Denying access to a consumer based on them practicing a constitutional right...OK...based on sexual choice? not OK!!!

    Ah, why didn't you tell me you were one of those who denied science and pretends people don't choose their sexual orientation? That changes everything.

    I have a constitutional right to be naked too, but not in a store.

  10. #210
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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Nope! I believe you are intentionally missing the point (hopefully). By disallowing someone the ability to run their business in a bigoted manner, you are not.... I repeat.... you are not impeding their ability to run their business according to the central theme of market orientated entrepreneurship.

    It is to max profits. Not to be a bigot if i so chose. You can do that on your own watch if that's what makes you tick.
    It's a violation of their property rights.

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