View Poll Results: Should B&B owners be allowed to refuse gay couples?

Voters
109. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, they should be allowed to refuse anyone for any reason

    65 59.63%
  • The should be allowed to refuse if it violates their religious beliefs

    3 2.75%
  • They should be fined for discriminating against gays

    16 14.68%
  • They should lose their B&B license for discriminating against gays

    19 17.43%
  • Other, please explain

    6 5.50%
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Thread: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous grounds

  1. #191
    Goddess of Bacon

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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Your obsession with negative freedom and using that as an argument is not the point. I already outlined the negative externalities associated with allowing discrimination. As always, an appeal to emotion.
    No, your "what if" and "this MIGHT happen" statements aren't much of an argument for infringing on the rights of business owners. Hell, even your suggestion that business owners just give them shoddy service violates your "what if" and "this might happen" slippery slopes. Giving them shoddy service could hurt their feelings too, and then piss off the people they tell about it and result in someone throwing a brick through their window. So, we can't allow a business to give shoddy service to someone. I mean, just think of what MIGHT happen if they did.

  2. #192
    I'm not-low all the time
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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    The problem with this argument is that plane crashes kill people immediately, there is a causal relationship which is immenently provable(necessary action to reduce plane crashes), we have a right to responsibility to uphold individual rights to life, the public's immediate safety must be protected from a clear and present danger and this is within the scope of the government's authority(Proper). Again, where is the probable compelling interest for the public to say that beyond a shadow of a doubt that laws to end bigotry trump a person's individual property rights?
    You argue as though one cannot have property rights without the right to be a bigot. I however do not view the two to be mutually exclusive. Logically, what are reasons not to serve a person(s) when you have a business?

    1.) They do not have the means to pay
    2.) By serving them, you are losing out on other more profitable clients
    3.) Their presence is disrupting your atmosphere
    4.) They are competitors looking to steal your plan/model/idea.
    5.) You are liable for the actions they take during or remotely after

    Are you saying that it is logically acceptable to deny service based on sexuality so that government does not intervene in your ability to conduct business in the manner(s) listed above? If so, good luck making that case.

    When it comes to empowering further any form of government, they don't.
    Except if you happen to agree with it
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  3. #193
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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Unfortunately the law disagrees with you.
    I mean, people can keep saying this and I'll keep responding the same way. This thread isn't about the law, it's asked should they be able to.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  4. #194
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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Quote Originally Posted by Partisan View Post
    Thank you for the link....
    So, sexual orientation trumps religious belief.....
    I think have a problem with that.....
    But the point is moot as the law now stands....
    Since society has spoken and the law is the law (which seems to fit arguments as long as they are CONVEEEENIENT) then why the hell are we still on daily about gay marriage? Hell...society has spoken. the people have made their opinions clear and known. Law has been established.

  5. #195
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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Since society has spoken and the law is the law (which seems to fit arguments as long as they are CONVEEEENIENT) then why the hell are we still on daily about gay marriage? Hell...society has spoken. the people have made their opinions clear and known. Law has been established.
    Its quite simple. The Constitution talks about rights given to individuals, not businesses or corporations (but then again...certain activists on the Supreme Court want to believe that corporations are people)...
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

  6. #196
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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    nope, the religious couple are allowed in a gay bar by law, so why can't the gay couple stay at a B&B?
    I dont know...why are businesses allowed to deny patronage to citizens carrying concealed firearms, an activity (right) specifically protected under the constitution?

  7. #197
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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Its quite simple. The Constitution talks about rights given to individuals, not businesses or corporations (but then again...certain activists on the Supreme Court want to believe that corporations are people)...
    I see...so the law works when it is what you want...doesnt apply when it ISNT something you like. Dont worry...Ive SEEN the playbook.

    So why then are businesses allowed to legally prohibit customers that are carrying concealed weapons, a constitutional right?

  8. #198
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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Its quite simple. The Constitution talks about rights given to individuals, not businesses or corporations (but then again...certain activists on the Supreme Court want to believe that corporations are people)...
    The Constitution does not talk about rights given to the individual. The individual has rights, and the Constitution lists some of them. An individual owns a piece of land wherein they construct some form of business. That land belongs to the individual, and thus the individual can decide who they wish to serve.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  9. #199
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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    Not to mention the fact that the state taxes all of us and thus "profits" from all of us citizens. And yet, as a private citizen I can allow or disallow whomever I want on my private property (i.e., my home, for instance). I can discriminate for any damn reason I want. His argument appears to be that I should be forced to allow anyone at all into my home since the state "profits" from me and my home (property taxes) and if I discriminate about who I let in my home, and they let me do that, then they are condoning that discrimination.
    What ridiculousness. Your home is not a place of public accommodations. Businesses are. Remember? That is what we're talking about? Businesses? Why don't you pick up a book on civil rights and what is covered under it?

    The Right to Refuse Service: Can a Business Refuse Service to Someone Because of Appearance, Odor or Attitude? | LegalZoom

    In cases in which the patron is not a member of a federally protected class, the question generally turns on whether the business's refusal of service was arbitrary, or whether the business had a specific interest in refusing service. For example, in a recent case, a California court decided that a motorcycle club had no discrimination claim against a sports bar that had denied members admission to the bar because they refused to remove their "colors," or patches, which signified club membership. The court held that the refusal of service was not based on the club members' unconventional dress, but was to protect a legitimate business interest in preventing fights between rival club members.

    On the other hand, a California court decided that a restaurant owner could not refuse to seat a gay couple in a semi-private booth where the restaurant policy was to only seat two people of opposite sexes in such booths. There was no legitimate business reason for the refusal of service, and so the discrimination was arbitrary and unlawful.


    In one more complicated case, a court held that a cemetery could exclude "punk rockers" from a private funeral service. A mother requested that the funeral service for her 17-year-old daughter be private and that admission to the service be limited to family and invited guests only. The cemetery failed to exclude punk rockers from the service. The punk rockers arrived in unconventional dress, wearing makeup and sporting various hair colors. One was wearing a dress decorated with live rats. Others wore leather and chains, some were twirling baton-like weapons, drinking, and using cocaine. The punk rockers made rude comments to family members and were generally disruptive of the service.
    ....

    Like many issues involving constitutional law, the law against discrimination in public accommodations is in a constant state of change. Some argue that anti-discrimination laws in matters of public accommodations create a conflict between the ideal of equality and individual rights. Does the guaranteed right to public access mean the business owner's private right to exclude is violated? For the most part, courts have decided that the constitutional interest in providing equal access to public accommodations outweighs the individual liberties involved.
    The Right To Refuse Service Or Discrimination? | Lifescript.com

    Businesses are primarily places of public accommodation. That means they are in business to accommodate the needs of the public. They actively invite and seek the patronage of the public and therefore are subject to the same anti-discrimination laws that protect workers seeking employment or promotion. Specifically, the Civil Rights Act of 1964 prohibits discrimination and guarantees all persons the right to “full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, and accommodations of any place of public accommodation, without discrimination or segregation on the grounds of race, color, religion or national origin.”
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  10. #200
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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Don't ask, don't tell, and ask for twin beds!
    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.--Thomas Jefferson

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