View Poll Results: Should B&B owners be allowed to refuse gay couples?

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  • Yes, they should be allowed to refuse anyone for any reason

    65 59.63%
  • The should be allowed to refuse if it violates their religious beliefs

    3 2.75%
  • They should be fined for discriminating against gays

    16 14.68%
  • They should lose their B&B license for discriminating against gays

    19 17.43%
  • Other, please explain

    6 5.50%
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Thread: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous grounds

  1. #181
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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    The question is when?

    Do you find it simple to ignore negative externalities?
    When what? You mean the market taking care of the trash? No one knows the timeframe, but it is a certainty as negative publicity has a multiplier that can't be quantified, but it's obvious that bad press usually gets worse, and when a reputation is ruined so is a business. Hell, I saw it happen down here to an upscale club when a group of black men were assaulted by their bouncers, they lost about 40% of their business within a couple of months. That is a severe beating in the bar industry.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  2. #182
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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Businesses are not free to reap the benefits of operating in our society without complying with the laws that our society imposes. We as a society have a right to say that we do not support discrimination. If the business doesn't want to comply, they can move to a country where discrimination is permitted.
    So you are saying that society has the right to impose its will on the individual?

  3. #183
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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    When what? You mean the market taking care of the trash? No one knows the timeframe, but it is a certainty as negative publicity has a multiplier that can't be quantified, but it's obvious that bad press usually gets worse, and when a reputation is ruined so is a business. Hell, I saw it happen down here to an upscale club when a group of black men were assaulted by their bouncers, they lost about 40% of their business within a couple of months. That is a severe beating in the bar industry.
    There is no exact time frame, and there is no guarantee it will be soon. In the long run, markets self correct. In the long run we are all dead.

    Question(off topic): In the absence of airline maintenance regulation, how many plane crashes would you view as acceptable to provide the mechanism for irresponsible firms to fail? 1 a year? 5 a year? 10 a year?

    At what point do the negative externalities begin to matter to you?
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  4. #184
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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    You negated your argument. The bold highlights it i added possibly for accuracy.

    This is already the law in GB. If their behavior was disruptive to the business (leading to a decrease in potential profits) then the manager/owner has grounds to dismiss them from the premise.
    The manager should have all the grounds to dismiss anyone they want from their business as it is THEIR business.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  5. #185
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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    The manager should have all the grounds to dismiss anyone they want from their business as it is THEIR business.
    Mine! I do what I want!

    Unfortunately the law disagrees with you. We are of course "free" to either adhere (positive) or break (negative) the law. Far too much negative freedom is associated with libertarians these days.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  6. #186
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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    I never said it was not. But to act as though it does not exist until **** hits the fan is irresponsible. Once the hate mail and death threats begin, should government get involved? It seems optimal to me (IMHO) to diffuse such situations.



    This is not a case of casual ignorance.



    Not just the people who were discriminated against, but the extreme folks who are actively engaged in such behavior. It is just not worth it.



    But why not take the necessary steps to prevent such ridiculous spillover effects? Do you know how the government diffused the violence, bloodshed, and massive political protests of the civil rights era?



    They violated contract in which the gay couple had been booked and given a deposit. Not only did they violate their agreement, but they broke the law :

    Equality Act (Sexual Orientation) Regulations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



    Then this has absolutely nothing to do with "the rights of a business" hence is a violation of British law. So until you can prove that by accommodating them, the firm would have reduced their profitability..... your opinion on the matter is meaningless.

    Yes we know: Rirrat does what she wants
    I don't give a flying **** what the law IS. What the law IS doesn't make it right. What we're saying is that the law should NOT be as it currently IS, and explaining to you why. Telling me "That's the law, so there" isn't much of a point.

  7. #187
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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    There is no exact time frame, and there is no guarantee it will be soon. In the long run, markets self correct. In the long run we are all dead.

    Question(off topic): In the absence of airline maintenance regulation, how many plane crashes would you view as acceptable to provide the mechanism for irresponsible firms to fail? 1 a year? 5 a year? 10 a year?
    The problem with this argument is that plane crashes kill people immediately, there is a causal relationship which is immenently provable(necessary action to reduce plane crashes), we have a right to responsibility to uphold individual rights to life, the public's immediate safety must be protected from a clear and present danger and this is within the scope of the government's authority(Proper). Again, where is the probable compelling interest for the public to say that beyond a shadow of a doubt that laws to end bigotry trump a person's individual property rights?

    At what point do the negative externalities begin to matter to you?
    When it comes to empowering further any form of government, they don't.
    Last edited by LaMidRighter; 03-25-10 at 01:47 PM.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  8. #188
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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Strawman? Hardly. I have provided plenty of reasons why private property rights should be upheld, you have not provided any solid logic to support your position. Logically people who don't pay for a business, rather confiscate every dime it can get from that business should not be dictating policy unless it is to protect against immediate danger.
    Not to mention the fact that the state taxes all of us and thus "profits" from all of us citizens. And yet, as a private citizen I can allow or disallow whomever I want on my private property (i.e., my home, for instance). I can discriminate for any damn reason I want. His argument appears to be that I should be forced to allow anyone at all into my home since the state "profits" from me and my home (property taxes) and if I discriminate about who I let in my home, and they let me do that, then they are condoning that discrimination.

  9. #189
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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    Not to mention the fact that the state taxes all of us and thus "profits" from all of us citizens. And yet, as a private citizen I can allow or disallow whomever I want on my private property (i.e., my home, for instance). I can discriminate for any damn reason I want. His argument appears to be that I should be forced to allow anyone at all into my home since the state "profits" from me and my home (property taxes) and if I discriminate about who I let in my home, and they let me do that, then they are condoning that discrimination.
    It would follow logically by his arguments.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  10. #190
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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    I don't give a flying **** what the law IS. What the law IS doesn't make it right. What we're saying is that the law should NOT be as it currently IS, and explaining to you why. Telling me "That's the law, so there" isn't much of a point.
    Your obsession with negative freedom and using that as an argument is not the point. I already outlined the negative externalities associated with allowing discrimination. As always, an appeal to emotion.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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