View Poll Results: Should B&B owners be allowed to refuse gay couples?

Voters
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  • Yes, they should be allowed to refuse anyone for any reason

    65 59.63%
  • The should be allowed to refuse if it violates their religious beliefs

    3 2.75%
  • They should be fined for discriminating against gays

    16 14.68%
  • They should lose their B&B license for discriminating against gays

    19 17.43%
  • Other, please explain

    6 5.50%
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Thread: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous grounds

  1. #161
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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    I never said it was not. But to act as though it does not exist until **** hits the fan is irresponsible. Once the hate mail and death threats begin, should government get involved? It seems optimal to me (IMHO) to diffuse such situations.



    This is not a case of casual ignorance.



    Not just the people who were discriminated against, but the extreme folks who are actively engaged in such behavior. It is just not worth it.



    But why not take the necessary steps to prevent such ridiculous spillover effects? Do you know how the government diffused the violence, bloodshed, and massive political protests of the civil rights era?



    They violated contract in which the gay couple had been booked and given a deposit. Not only did they violate their agreement, but they broke the law :

    Equality Act (Sexual Orientation) Regulations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



    Then this has absolutely nothing to do with "the rights of a business" hence is a violation of British law. So until you can prove that by accommodating them, the firm would have reduced their profitability..... your opinion on the matter is meaningless.

    Yes we know: Rirrat does what she wants
    You are arguing though for proactive law in case something bad "might" happen that were illegal. This is the same problem I have with gun banners, their core argument is "something bad might happen", this is the same setup for many onerous regulations. Let's face it, freedom can be a bitch, but I would rather have the freedom to choose and enjoy my rights knowing there are consequences than have to suffer some tyrannical movement seeking to infringe upon me for any reason they can dig up.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  2. #162
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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    You are arguing though for proactive law in case something bad "might" happen that were illegal. This is the same problem I have with gun banners, their core argument is "something bad might happen", this is the same setup for many onerous regulations. Let's face it, freedom can be a bitch, but I would rather have the freedom to choose and enjoy my rights knowing there are consequences than possibly suffering some tyrannical movement seeking to infringe upon me for any reason they can dig up.
    You negated your argument. The bold highlights it i added possibly for accuracy.

    This is already the law in GB. If their behavior was disruptive to the business (leading to a decrease in potential profits) then the manager/owner has grounds to dismiss them from the premise.

    Also(edit): The might happen is quite the reality. From the OP's source:
    "These people are very organised and we have already been inundated with abusive calls and emails. It is really sad that people act like that."
    Last edited by Kushinator; 03-25-10 at 12:41 PM.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  3. #163
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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Quote Originally Posted by Partisan View Post
    Of course, you should be able to reserve the right to serve anyone....
    With respect to the original topic:
    If their religious belief bans them from allowing the abomination of homosexuality under their roof, (Leviticus 18:22) they are well within their rights to refuse service........
    Wrong!

    Equality Act (Sexual Orientation) Regulations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  4. #164
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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    You negated your argument. The bold highlights it i added possibly for accuracy.

    This is already the law in GB. If their behavior was disruptive to the business (leading to a decrease in potential profits) then the manager/owner has grounds to dismiss them from the premise.
    Actually, the argument stands within context. The "something bad can happen" in this case is someone might be unfairly discriminated against, well, sure that sucks and I would not do business with that company, I would vote with my patronage. Again, there are worse things in life than being excluded and I certainly don't want to do business with people who don't like me, life isn't fair.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Actually, the argument stands within context. The "something bad can happen" in this case is someone might be unfairly discriminated against, well, sure that sucks and I would not do business with that company, I would vote with my patronage. Again, there are worse things in life than being excluded and I certainly don't want to do business with people who don't like me, life isn't fair.
    Nope! The bad that can happen in this case is some pro gay activist throws a brick through their window (at the very least).

    Also; your argument holds no grounds because it is violates GB law.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  6. #166
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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Nope! The bad that can happen in this case is some pro gay activist throws a brick through their window (at the very least).

    Also; your argument holds no grounds because it is violates GB law.
    I'm not talking about a specific law, I am speaking to why the law should not exist, of course, it's the UK so it is their business. "Bad things could happen" because of someone else's reaction is insufficient, the person throwing the brick is responsible for that action, not the business owner.......whether or not he deserved it.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  7. #167
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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religiou gro

    Discrimination is not necessarily a bad thing. A business such as a bed and breakfast (B & B) has all its clientèle to consider and respect.
    If these people, paying customers at a B & B object to others who are obnoxious or rowdy, then their wishes must be respected and the B & B owners must discriminate.
    But two minority group men may not be obnoxious, and I doubt if most normal frequenters of a B & B would object.

    But, I do not like the idea of our government forcing their higher morality on others, even if they are right and the people are wrong..

    The problem is, I believe, is that some B & B operators think that their customers would object to catering to homosexuals, and I can see their point.
    Maybe we should cool it for a time and allow the people to catch up.
    Progress too fast is counter-productive.

  8. #168
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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religiou gro

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    The problem is, I believe, is that some B & B operators think that their customers would object to catering to homosexuals, and I can see their point.
    Maybe we should cool it for a time and allow the people to catch up.
    Progress too fast is counter-productive.
    So what you are saying is that we should just leave it alone, ignore it and hope things will slowly change. I think that's the cowards way out. If we as a society see discrimination and wrong in this world it is up to us as individuals to stand up for what is right. If we don't...who will. If we don't as people chose to do what is right, we will never move beyond where we are now. Just think of how different a society we would have as far as race relations if more whites had stood up and said...wait, this is wrong. Let's do what is right.

  9. #169
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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Are you? The state doesn't "benefit" from the business, it taxes it. So again, the state is not a partner in any real world way yet it legislates at whim to encroach on business decisions constantly. You are intentionally not addressing the argument of the state's compelling interest in forcing commerce, you are arguing for state compulsion and THEN assigning the state a role in the business.

    To condense things; The state has no image investment in the business, the business does, the state takes no loss, the business does, the state takes no risk, the business does. But at the end of your theory the state has no interest in the business except taxation, yet somehow magically the businesses decisions reflect on the state? Again, how do you come to that conclusion when it is patently obvious that the state is a hinderance at best and a nuisance at worst? It has been explained already that bigotry isn't tolerable, and that as a society we would shut the business down using market factors, AND that bigotry is a provable failure in business.......yet you still defer to government authority, you should then have some proof of compelling interest past "it's the right thing to do", or "because we can't accept........." the onus is on you to prove why private property rights(and these do include private business) are trumped by government authority.
    What a huge strawman. My argument remains on the fact that a state which taxes people for legal business ventures is consenting and endorsing whatever activities they carry out through this business if it knows about them and does not step in. If the state were to legalize prostitution and tax it, the state would be consenting and playing an active role in consenting and endorsing prostitution. Regardless of your huge red herring about the role of a government and whether it is a nuisance or not, whether it is an active partner in ' any real world way', taxation gives legitimacy to a business and demonstrates what a state finds acceptable or not.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 03-25-10 at 12:54 PM.
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  10. #170
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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    What a huge strawman. My argument remains on the fact that a state which taxes people for legal business ventures is consenting and endorsing whatever activities they carry out through this business if it knows about them and does not step in. If the state were to legalize prostitution and tax it, the state would be consenting and playing an active role in consenting and endorsing prostitution. Regardless of your huge red herring about the role of a government and whether it is a nuisance or not, whether it is an active partner in ' any real world way',taxation gives legitimacy to a business and demonstrates what a state finds acceptable or not.
    Strawman? Hardly. I have provided plenty of reasons why private property rights should be upheld, you have not provided any solid logic to support your position. Logically people who don't pay for a business, rather confiscate every dime it can get from that business should not be dictating policy unless it is to protect against immediate danger.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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