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Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous grounds

Should B&B owners be allowed to refuse gay couples?

  • Yes, they should be allowed to refuse anyone for any reason

    Votes: 48 59.3%

  • The should be allowed to refuse if it violates their religious beliefs

    Votes: 2 2.5%

  • They should be fined for discriminating against gays

    Votes: 11 13.6%

  • They should lose their B&B license for discriminating against gays

    Votes: 14 17.3%

  • Other, please explain

    Votes: 6 7.4%
  • Total voters
    81
Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

Vader said:
If it's done on the premise of race, religion, sexual orientation, ect .... no, you cannot.

So with that in mind, you comment is consistantly incorrect a quite likely to land you in court.
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My comment is based on profitability. Your lack of reading comprehension has sent you into a bit of a tail spin.



WRONG.

They CANNOT make rules which disallow membership based on race, color, religion, or sexual orientation. That is a violation of the Civil Rights Act of 1963.

You are mistaken.
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Who are these people? Freemasonry - Home How do they legally function?
 
Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

Groucho said:
With you, I agree. However, there certainly are plenty of racists who want to discriminate on the basis of their bigotry and not from any desire for a smaller government.

The problem is that your definition of "private property" is so broad that it would include a private bus company, a private airline, and every single business that is privately owned. The law, however, holds that once you open your property to the public at large it is no longer "private."

As pointed out earlier, if you want to open a business that is available only to those you invite in (like a club) you can discriminate. If you want the benefits of being a member of the United States of America (such as obtaining business from American citizens) then you have to go by the rules of THAT club instead.
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I don't understand your argument here. It seems like nothing more than an appeal to authority (it's the law, the government says so, the majority says so).

What is the philosophical or moral basis for denying a sovereign individual his or her right to manage something they undoubtedly own?
 
Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

I'm wondering I own acre put it up for sale to the public should I be allowed to refuse sale to certain people like gay people?
 
Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

winston53660 said:
I'm wondering I own acre put it up for sale to the public should I be allowed to refuse sale to certain people like gay people?
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Yes, you can sell to whoever you want - but if you put up a placard saying 'No Gay's you'd probably be in trouble.
 
Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

winston53660 said:
I'm wondering I own acre put it up for sale to the public should I be allowed to refuse sale to certain people like gay people?
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I don't see why not. You own the property. Just because I find your terms distasteful doesn't mean I should impose my morality on you.
 
Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

winston53660 said:
I'm wondering I own acre put it up for sale to the public should I be allowed to refuse sale to certain people like gay people?
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Actually, this brings up an interesting point. Let's suppose that instead of refusing to sell said property to gays, you refused to sell said property to the KKK because their intention is to erect a recruiting center on the land. Certainly, your objection to selling them the property is principled but discriminatory nonetheless. Should the government force you to sell them the property?
 
Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

Gander said:
Actually, this brings up an interesting point. Let's suppose that instead of refusing to sell said property to gays, you refused to sell said property to the KKK because their intention is to erect a recruiting center on the land. Certainly, your objection to selling them the property is principled but discriminatory nonetheless. Should the government force you to sell them the property?
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Both in the UK and in the USA he can sell to who he likes so what you say has no relevance.
 
Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

Gander said:
I don't see why not. You own the property. Just because I find your terms distasteful doesn't mean I should impose my morality on you.
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Once more, I am very glad that your views died out in mainstream politics all those years ago.

After all, equality under the law? Yeah, a completely foreign concept here.
 
Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

alexa said:
Both in the UK and in the USA he can sell to who he likes so what you say has no relevance.
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Um, NO. And it hasn't been that way for 50 years or so, since restrictive covenants were struck down.

Man! Can't you guys tell the difference between the real world and your fantasy world?
 
Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

alexa said:
Both in the UK and in the USA he can sell to who he likes so what you say has no relevance.
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Can he advertise the fact? Can he say, "I won't sell this property to blacks/gays/racists/etc.?"
 
Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

Groucho said:
Once more, I am very glad that your views died out in mainstream politics all those years ago.

After all, equality under the law? Yeah, a completely foreign concept here.
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Under the law, yes. No one is disputing that. But what does my selling cupcakes to someone have to do with "equality under the law"? If I only want to sell my cupcakes to certain people, why can't I? Under what provision does someone gain the right to be served by me against my will?
 
Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

Groucho said:
Um, NO. And it hasn't been that way for 50 years or so, since restrictive covenants were struck down.

Man! Can't you guys tell the difference between the real world and your fantasy world?
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In the UK you can sell your property to whoever you want. I assumed because we are tighter in business terms that the US would also allow that.

I am sorry my ignorance of the US laws has raised your wrath.
 
Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

Groucho said:
With you, I agree. However, there certainly are plenty of racists who want to discriminate on the basis of their bigotry and not from any desire for a smaller government.
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It doesn't matter their reasons why. It could be because the business person despises redheads. It could be because they fear men and only want to serve women. It could be because they're racist, sexist bastards. The reason is irrelevant. It's THEIR property.

The problem is that your definition of "private property" is so broad that it would include a private bus company, a private airline, and every single business that is privately owned. The law, however, holds that once you open your property to the public at large it is no longer "private."
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Yes, every single business would apply. ALL of them. What the law holds is irrelevant. What we're saying is that the law should be changed and I've yet to see a logical, consistent argument for why it shouldn't that isn't based on "we can't allow big meanies".

As pointed out earlier, if you want to open a business that is available only to those you invite in (like a club) you can discriminate. If you want the benefits of being a member of the United States of America (such as obtaining business from American citizens) then you have to go by the rules of THAT club instead.
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Why does someone lose rights when they open a business? How can you logically force someone to serve someone else and still maintain the tenets of the Constitution?
 
Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

winston53660 said:
I'm wondering I own acre put it up for sale to the public should I be allowed to refuse sale to certain people like gay people?
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Given it will be illegal to explicitly state you are not selling it to the particular party because they are gay and it is impossible to conclude them being gay is going to "lower your price", you will not have much success in the bold statement.
 
Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

Groucho said:
Once more, I am very glad that your views died out in mainstream politics all those years ago.

After all, equality under the law? Yeah, a completely foreign concept here.
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The concept of "equality under the law" is not at issue here, as we are discussing the concept of private property.
 
Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

Gander said:
Can he advertise the fact? Can he say, "I won't sell this property to blacks/gays/racists/etc.?"
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No, of course not. I said that earlier. That would correctly be seen as ill mannered, racist/homophobic/xenophobic etc
 
Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

alexa said:
In the UK you can sell your property to whoever you want. I assumed because we are tighter in business terms that the US would also allow that.

I am sorry my ignorance of the US laws has raised your wrath.
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He does seem a bit angry, doesn't he? I wonder if he's trying to purchase some property...:2razz:
 
Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

alexa said:
No, of course not. I said that earlier. That would correctly be seen as ill mannered, racist/homophobic/xenophobic etc
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Okay, then my previous question stands. What if, instead of not selling to gays, he chose not to sell to KKK members?
 
Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

Gander said:
Okay, then my previous question stands. What if, instead of not selling to gays, he chose not to sell to KKK members?
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Well we don't have the KKK here. Our worst in the EDL - English Defence League closely followed by the British Nationalist Party.

I am not sure that either of these organisations come into any of the categories under which we legislate for equal opportunities.

In any event the only reason to make a point is to bring attention to it. With minorities that is discrimination and we don't allow it.
 
Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

Gander said:
He does seem a bit angry, doesn't he? I wonder if he's trying to purchase some property...:2razz:
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:rofl I don't think I agree with your ideas but you did make me laugh.
 
Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

alexa said:
Well we don't have the KKK here. Our worst in the EDL - English Defence League closely followed by the British Nationalist Party.

I am not sure that either of these organisations come into any of the categories under which we legislate for equal opportunities.

In any event the only reason to make a point is to bring attention to it. With minorities that is discrimination and we don't allow it.
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I understand what the law is. I'm just trying to ascertain what the philosophical or moral basis of your position is. An individual owns their property just as they own themselves, to me, that means they may dispense of it in a manner they see fit. Do you agree?
 
Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

Gander said:
I understand what the law is. I'm just trying to ascertain what the philosophical or moral basis of your position is. An individual owns their property just as they own themselves, to me, that means they may dispense of it in a manner they see fit. Do you agree?
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Yes and no.

Here in Scotland you have to spend a lot of money getting ready to buy somewhere and you are up against others in blind bidding anyway so if someone lets you go through all that and had no intention of selling to you, they have wasted your time and money.

Yes, as a seller I want to have that right.

Thing is, I do. I just don't have the right to insult people and encourage discrimination at the same time.
 
Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

I hope that if any of you try to limit your businesses in this way in Pennsylvania, that you will contact me when you get sued and/or arrested. This could be quite profitable for me! ;)
 
Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

Groucho said:
I hope that if any of you try to limit your businesses in this way in Pennsylvania, that you will contact me when you get sued and/or arrested. This could be quite profitable for me! ;)
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Why the hell would we want to do that?
 
Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

Groucho said:
I hope that if any of you try to limit your businesses in this way in Pennsylvania, that you will contact me when you get sued and/or arrested. This could be quite profitable for me! ;)
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You should chill. I have no interest in discriminating against anyone but of course as an owner people want to feel they can decide whether or not to sell to people.

I have known people to feel so emotional about their property they have sold to the person they like best rather than the person with the most money.

Nothing to do with wanting to discriminate.
 
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