View Poll Results: Should B&B owners be allowed to refuse gay couples?

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  • Yes, they should be allowed to refuse anyone for any reason

    65 59.63%
  • The should be allowed to refuse if it violates their religious beliefs

    3 2.75%
  • They should be fined for discriminating against gays

    16 14.68%
  • They should lose their B&B license for discriminating against gays

    19 17.43%
  • Other, please explain

    6 5.50%
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Thread: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous grounds

  1. #131
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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Seiously? You mean...throughout history...people in ALL CULTURES and ALL RACES have taken the stance that homosexuality may be against the societal norms?
    It is too bad popularity is not a factor for determining whether something is good or bad. Slavery has also been embraced by all people of all races. Are you implying that making people slaves should be fine? You're smarter than that VanceMack.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  2. #132
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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Hold up. You are getting ahead of the argument and assuming too much here. The state is not the same as private.........yet, but don't worry, the nanny staters are trying their damndest to get it there. There is a HUGE difference between a bad business owner allowing bigotry to control their business decisions and a state denying something between two consenting adults. For instance, marriage should only be between the church and couple, business should be between consumer and provider, and bedroom activities between consenting adults is only the business of two consenting adults.
    If a state allows business owners who provide a service to discriminate based on race, gender, sexuality, as it often has and still does, it is just as complicit in discrimination as the business owner. There is absolutely no difference in a state engaging in discrimination and allowing it.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  3. #133
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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    It is too bad popularity is not a factor for determining whether something is good or bad. Slavery has also been embraced by all people of all races. Are you implying that making people slaves should be fine? You're smarter than that VanceMack.
    Im saying people have a right to their moral positions and beliefs and those beliefs have transcended race. Some institutions were always wrong...and why we dont focus more on the fact that slaves were and always have been held by people of ALL races and try and point that out and maybe do something about that even TODAY is beyond me...well...its not...we can really bang that drum and get a lot of mileage out of it, cant we...

    Some issues are a little different. many people believe that moral issues transcend race. And while there is no room to attempt to DENY people their right to live as they choose (and I dont see anyone doing that) there also should not exist a requirement to force people to accept BEHAVIOR they find morally wrong.

    World of difference there...

  4. #134
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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    If a state allows business owners who provide a service to discriminate based on race, gender, sexuality, as it often has and still does, it is just as complicit in discrimination as the business owner. There is absolutely no difference in a state engaging in discrimination and allowing it.
    How do you figure?
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

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  5. #135
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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    If a state allows business owners who provide a service to discriminate based on race, gender, sexuality, as it often has and still does, it is just as complicit in discrimination as the business owner. There is absolutely no difference in a state engaging in discrimination and allowing it.
    So you are saying organ izations like the NAACP should be forced to disband and their college loan and grant programs should be abolished because they are discriminatory?

  6. #136
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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    I'm not obsessed about anything.
    Nearly all of your arguments operate from the premise of "letting your freak flag fly"; meaning "i should be able to do whatever i want".

    First, there is no risk of full scale bigoted abuse. Not even a small risk, much less a "too great" one. You seriously going to sit there and tell me that there's a "great risk" of every business owner in this country, in THIS day and age, (or even a majority of them) openly discriminating against a group of people?
    Lets keep our thinking clear. This poll is in regards to the situation in the UK. I am not sure how familiar you are with the UK, or large cities in Europe in general, but London is filled with demographic clusters. There are Chinese, Jewish, Turkish, etc... areas all throughout London. If it were to become both legal and acceptable to openly discriminate; this behavior can very well spread like a wild fire.

    Firms operate under the pretense to maximize profit. Blind discrimination only shortchanges this objective, and such practices have no place in the business world.

    Will markets correct such faulty business practices? Of course. The question is not yes or no, but when? How many people are we willing to let be discriminated against in the effort to "do what we want"? You do not even seem aware of the side effects of such practices. The gay couple in question will have a much higher propensity to feel prejudice towards the "type" of people who discriminated against them. Hate fuels hate. This is the type of **** you do not want in society.

    I laugh at the mere suggestion of such a thing. We all know the days of wide scale bigotry are far behind us.
    Due to legislation.... Not because we were "letting our freak flag fly".

    But yes, a business owner should have full legal say in who they serve and who they do not serve. Why should they be forced to SERVE someone they don't want to?
    Forced to serve? When a firm opens its doors, it is choosing to serve based on a specific barrier known as price. You act as if this couple did something wrong and as far as we know this is not the case. Was their money not good enough

    And yeah, if a *private* business owner wants to have white and black and latino water fountains, they should be allowed to. Where is the logical, unemotional reason to disallow it?
    I have a mentor who has taught me quite a bit about business. This man is most likely far more wealthier than we will ever imagine and the amount of knowledge i gained from him cannot be purchased.

    One of the very first things i was taught about operating a business, especially one based on service, is that treating people with disrespect (be they customers, employees, partners) creates enemies. You do not allocate capital and labor in an effort to project morality on the people around you; it is to maximize profits. Creating enemies is in no way a logical mechanism to achieve such a goal.

    Creating enemies will only diminish profits in the long run (and most likely the short run as well). So please try your hardest to explain to me what the **** is so logical about that?
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  7. #137
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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    How do you figure?
    Try telling your boss to fire all the women in your workplace and see how fast the state steps in. The state, at least in the U.S., has acknowledged that it is complicit when it turns a blind eye to blatant discrimination.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  8. #138
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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Firms operate under the pretense to maximize profit. Blind discrimination only shortchanges this objective, and such practices have no place in the business world.
    Indeed. People who make bad business decisions generally don't stay in business. What's that got to do with the legality of it, though?

    Will markets correct such faulty business practices? Of course. The question is not yes or no, but when? How many people are we willing to let be discriminated against in the effort to "do what we want"? You do not even seem aware of the side effects of such practices. The gay couple in question will have a much higher propensity to feel prejudice towards the "type" of people who discriminated against them. Hate fuels hate. This is the type of **** you do not want in society.
    No, hate only fuels hate when both sides are hating. I've been discriminated against. It hasn't made me "hate". If a person becomes hateful due to the actions of another hateful person, that's really their own fault.


    Forced to serve? When a firm opens its doors, it is choosing to serve based on a specific barrier known as price. You act as if this couple did something wrong and as far as we know this is not the case. Was their money not good enough
    No, their money was NOT good enough apparently.


    I have a mentor who has taught me quite a bit about business. This man is most likely far more wealthier than we will ever imagine and the amount of knowledge i gained from him cannot be purchased.

    One of the very first things i was taught about operating a business, especially one based on service, is that treating people with disrespect (be they customers, employees, partners) creates enemies. You do not allocate capital and labor in an effort to project morality on the people around you; it is to maximize profits. Creating enemies is in no way a logical mechanism to achieve such a goal.

    Creating enemies will only diminish profits in the long run (and most likely the short run as well). So please try your hardest to explain to me what the **** is so logical about that?
    I never stated anything at all about how logical the actions of the *business owners* were. I was referencing the actions of the state by way of the legality of it.

    The business owners are hateful ****tards and I hope their business fails miserably. But it still should be, IMO, their right as business people to serve and refuse to serve whomever they wish for whatever reason they wish.
    Last edited by rivrrat; 03-25-10 at 11:07 AM.

  9. #139
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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Nearly all of your arguments operate from the premise of "letting your freak flag fly"; meaning "i should be able to do whatever i want".



    Lets keep our thinking clear. This poll is in regards to the situation in the UK. I am not sure how familiar you are with the UK, or large cities in Europe in general, but London is filled with demographic clusters. There are Chinese, Jewish, Turkish, etc... areas all throughout London. If it were to become both legal and acceptable to openly discriminate; this behavior can very well spread like a wild fire.

    Firms operate under the pretense to maximize profit. Blind discrimination only shortchanges this objective, and such practices have no place in the business world.

    Will markets correct such faulty business practices? Of course. The question is not yes or no, but when? How many people are we willing to let be discriminated against in the effort to "do what we want"? You do not even seem aware of the side effects of such practices. The gay couple in question will have a much higher propensity to feel prejudice towards the "type" of people who discriminated against them. Hate fuels hate. This is the type of **** you do not want in society.



    Due to legislation.... Not because we were "letting our freak flag fly".



    Forced to serve? When a firm opens its doors, it is choosing to serve based on a specific barrier known as price. You act as if this couple did something wrong and as far as we know this is not the case. Was their money not good enough



    I have a mentor who has taught me quite a bit about business. This man is most likely far more wealthier than we will ever imagine and the amount of knowledge i gained from him cannot be purchased.

    One of the very first things i was taught about operating a business, especially one based on service, is that treating people with disrespect (be they customers, employees, partners) creates enemies. You do not allocate capital and labor in an effort to project morality on the people around you; it is to maximize profits. Creating enemies is in no way a logical mechanism to achieve such a goal.

    Creating enemies will only diminish profits in the long run (and most likely the short run as well). So please try your hardest to explain to me what the **** is so logical about that?
    Here is the point some posters are missing. No one here from what I can assertain said anything about pissing customers off and unfairly discriminating being a good thing, in fact just about everyone said it is the exact opposite. What many are arguing is that private businesses that cater to the public shouldn't be compelled to cater to someone because of government interference.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  10. #140
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    Re: Should a Bed and Breakfast Owner be allowed to refuse Gay couples on religous gro

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    So you are saying organ izations like the NAACP should be forced to disband and their college loan and grant programs should be abolished because they are discriminatory?
    1. NAACP does not run a business. Thus why it is 'tax-exempt'.
    2. NAACP does not require you to be black to be a member
    3. NAACP does not provide loans or grant programs based on race.

    ---------------------

    But I think the NAACP today is a joke so lets disband it just because it is a failure as a NGO.

    Here is the form if you want to join:

    http://www.naacp.org/get-involved/membership/member.pdf
    Last edited by Hatuey; 03-25-10 at 11:16 AM.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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