View Poll Results: Answer according to the hypothetical

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  • Increase it at the 4 year mark

    1 20.00%
  • Increase slowly in the time between now and then.

    2 40.00%
  • Increase quickly in the time between now and then.

    1 20.00%
  • Other

    1 20.00%
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Thread: Products, regulation, and the economy

  1. #21
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    Re: Products, regulation, and the economy

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    So you would ramp it up before hand, just not quite as far out from the point of regulations beginning as option #2 would be, so somewhere between #1 and #2.

    So your hope would be that the blame on the government would win out over blame of greed, or over consumer shock at the sudden increase?
    Well the real reason means less to the customer than the advertised reason and blaming the government would provide an easy scape goat that seems the least likely to harm the business. Given that it is not the whole truth, it would technically be a lie, but hey that's how businesses operate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    And you think it'd be a worth while risk that the government wouldn't fix your price lower to than the point you hope to increase it to?
    The question of what the government would do is hard to answer because I think it depends on the details of the exact legislation, so I don't know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Or would you increase it higher than you would need in anticipation of such a price fix in hopes of negating that affect while still being able to hold off till just near the end to raise your prices?
    My initial reaction is that if the government is going to try and regulate prices than they will expend some effort to find out what the necessary costs are for a particular operation. My reaction to this would probably be to bribe and lobby.

  2. #22
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    Re: Products, regulation, and the economy

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Well the real reason means less to the customer than the advertised reason and blaming the government would provide an easy scape goat that seems the least likely to harm the business. Given that it is not the whole truth, it would technically be a lie, but hey that's how businesses operate.



    The question of what the government would do is hard to answer because I think it depends on the details of the exact legislation, so I don't know.



    My initial reaction is that if the government is going to try and regulate prices than they will expend some effort to find out what the necessary costs are for a particular operation. My reaction to this would probably be to bribe and lobby.
    Hrm my impression and my own negative reaction to what I wrote tells me that I am not cut out to be a top officer at a large company.

  3. #23
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    Re: Products, regulation, and the economy

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Alright, wanting to throw this out there to get some insight into what people think because there's an aspect of this bill that makes zero sense to me. The Democrats and Obama have repeatedly told us this is going to bring premiums down,
    They are lying- either knowingly or unknowingly. Whatever you subsidize, you get more of. Subsidize poverty, you get more poverty. Subsidize illigitimacy, you get more of it. Subsidize illness, you get more illness. What our government does is focus on societal problems by trying to buy solutions. You can't solve problems by throwing money at them. You solve problems by refusing to indulge the causes. You let the problem solve itself. It's the law of nature, and it's the only one that does not fail.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
    -C G Jung

  4. #24
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    Re: Products, regulation, and the economy

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Stay competitive with what? If all insurance companies actually want to make a profit, the point of a business, and all insurance companies are going to have increase in the cost of medical care because of the regulations, then there is no competition they have to compete with if they all increase rates to match the rise in cost.
    Since they are all subject to the same new regulations, and thus the playing field is level, could it not also result in either:

    A. Increased efficiency on the part of the insurer in terms of administration costs.

    B. A reduction in profit margins rather than an increase in premiums beyond what they otherwise would have been.

    C. The added costs of the additional regulation being more than offset by the increased number of participants and more young and healthy people will be in the market.

    I would imagine that C will more than offset the additional costs of the additional regulation.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

  5. #25
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    Re: Products, regulation, and the economy

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    They are lying- either knowingly or unknowingly. Whatever you subsidize, you get more of. Subsidize poverty, you get more poverty. Subsidize illigitimacy, you get more of it. Subsidize illness, you get more illness.
    You might be on to something, I am sure we will have more cancer, genetic diseases, and other chronic health problems simply because insurers now have to insure those with pre-existing conditions. After all, cancer is caused by insurers having to insure you even if you have had it.

    Sometimes y'all libertarians treat your beliefs as though they were a fundamentalist cult and thus not subject to reason and common sense.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

  6. #26
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    Re: Products, regulation, and the economy

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Alright, wanting to throw this out there to get some insight into what people think because there's an aspect of this bill that makes zero sense to me. The Democrats and Obama have repeatedly told us this is going to bring premiums down, however I see it as nothing but an attempt to be able to continue to demonize the insurance industry for simply being smart businessmen. Here's what I mean...

    Say you are a businessman, and you produce a product. Doesn't matter what the product is, be it tangable or a service, but you produce it.

    You currently sell it for "X" amount of money

    The government then passes regulation and legislation that is going to cause the basic cost associated with what determines the price of your product up substantially, but it is not going to happen for another 4 years. At this time however there will also be mechanisms in place where they could exert control over how much you sell your product for.

    So, as this businessman do you:

    1. Not raise your prices at all currently, or in the next four years, until such time that the regulations come into play. At that point you raise it to cover the increase in cost and hope the government doesn't lower it on you.

    2. Raise your prices slowly and steadily over the next few so that by the time regulations come into place you're already at the threshold to afford it with a little backlog of funds incase the government chooses to lower your price.

    3. Raise your prices at a relatively fast pace over the next few years above what would be needed to cover the regulations, with the belief that its likely the government will require you to sell your product at a lower price and hoping that by being more expensive at that point the lower price will actually be higher than it would be if you were right on the money with cost.

    To me, personally, option 2 would be my prefered method if I was running a business, with 3 being more prefered over 1. One seems suicidal, placing all trust in the government not meddling This meddling wording I srongly disagree with.and that your customers won't have an issue with an enormous price increase.

    This is my issue with Health Care currently.

    Soon, Insurance Companies are going to have to be insuring people with preconditions. To me, this is like Las Vegas having to give the Indianapolis Colts the same odds at winning the Super Bowl as the Cleveland Browns. People with previous conditions are more likely to incur expenses, and typically more costly expenses, at a lot quicker rate meaning that they're far more likely that they get out more than they put in. This raises the general operating costs of Insurance Companies. This is just one of numerous potential things that will likely end up raising the operating costs associated with the cost of medical care for Insurance Companies.

    This is especially true if one could hold off on getting insurance until they discover they have cancer, and then are legally required to be given insurance at that point, as an example.

    If the costs to be able to provide Insurance go up, then premiums will have to raise to cover the business expense. If they don't then the Insurance Companies can not function and would have to close up shop (which of course would set the stage to say "oh, well the government needs to take over", but that's a different story). So, IF the Insurance Agency's are to survive, prices MUST go up.

    Which then begs the question, should we expect the prices to rise only in the future or start rising now? And IF they start rising is that the fault of the "greedy" Insurance Companies or of the government for putting into place the situation that makes them HAVE to raise their premiums if they want to remain in business.

    So, there's my question to you all, with the reasoning behind it (So its not a baiting question)....

    In the hypothetical above, if you're the business owner, would you raise prices in 4 years, slowly raise prices in the intermediate years, or quickly raise prices in the intermediate years.
    Its obvious to me that for health care insurance to be a for profit only business, the present conditions cannot be sustained.
    So the government must take over in order to cover pre-existing conditions.. This is simply not the place for business to be.....

  7. #27
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    Re: Products, regulation, and the economy

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Sometimes y'all libertarians treat your beliefs as though they were a fundamentalist cult and thus not subject to reason and common sense.
    I may not understand much of quantum physics, but I do understand people, and the relationship between focus and reality. You can ridicule all you want, but there exists a mind-body relationship. Focused mental and emotional energy has physical results. I'm sure you're aware that stress causes actual physical problems. Same principle.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
    -C G Jung

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