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Are Taxes Theft

Are Taxes Theft

  • No Taxes are not theft

    Votes: 32 78.0%
  • Yes Taxes are theft

    Votes: 8 19.5%
  • Yes Taxes are theft and I receive a government paycheck or benifits

    Votes: 1 2.4%

  • Total voters
    41

Lord Tammerlain

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I know a few people believe or at least feel taxes are theft.

This is a poll to determine how many feel that way.

As a side note

I do believe it is a crime to receive (knowingly?) stolen goods.
 
"Other".

Depending on the circumstances and context surrounding each individual tax examined, they may or may not be "theft".

Property taxes, and some consequences for not paying/not being able to pay them, I consider more theft-like than most.
 
The constitution allows for them. So no. They're not theft.
 
It's an allowed and necessary power of the federal government. Yet at the same time I think it behooves us to think of taxes as a form of theft as it will limit the amount we are willing to put up with the act.
 
I have an idea... any elected politician, anyone in the army, any people with government jobs, anyone working in our defense department, anyone who we trust with our national security... lets not pay them anything! Wooo no more taxes! (kidding btw)

:screwy

Now if you're concerned with what our politicians spend our tax dollars on not concerning payroll, that's a whole other matter... but in order for any government to exist you need money to fund it.
 
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I know a few people believe or at least feel taxes are theft.

This is a poll to determine how many feel that way.

As a side note

I do believe it is a crime to receive (knowingly?) stolen goods.

I think it is mostly legal semantics much like killing and murder.Generally people view that taking someones property by force and with out permission to be an act of theft but legally speaking since it is legal for the government to take your money without permission and by force it is not legally theft.
 
I think it is mostly legal semantics much like killing and murder.Generally people view that taking someones property by force and with out permission to be an act of theft but legally speaking since it is legal for the government to take your money without permission and by force it is not legally theft.

Generally I am asking if the you (not you specifically but any poster) feels that believes taxes are theft whether or not they are legal (as in government making them legal).

A
 
I know a few people believe or at least feel taxes are theft.

This is a poll to determine how many feel that way.

As a side note

I do believe it is a crime to receive (knowingly?) stolen goods.

I'm going with Dingy Harry Reid on this one.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7mRSI8yWwg"]YouTube- Paying income tax in America is Voluntary[/ame]
 
If your neighbor comes to your door with a gun and demands a $20 donation to help keep the community pool clean, or else he'll shoot your dog, that's theft even if your family swims at the community pool.

A government demanding that you donate money for its programs under the threat of property seizure and/or arrest and imprisonment is similarly theft, even if you use those programs, and even if that theft is considered to be legal under the laws of that government.

P.S. - The idea that, because the government says it's okay, it isn't theft, makes no sense to me. Governments of all kinds, even ours, are simply large, highly organized gangs that control land (and the people who live on that land) through force. In our case, if you live on the land that the U.S.A. gang controls, you're a dues paying member and whether you like it or not. Granted, you have the choice to not pay dues, but the choice to pay or go to jail is really no choice at all.

P.P.S. - I'm proud to be a dues paying member of the U.S.A. gang. I just wish our dues our were smaller, fairer and that the dues money was used a little better by our elected gang leaders. Oh, and that the method of collecting dues was a little... okay, a lot... less confusing.
 
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I'm going with Dingy Harry Reid on this one.

YouTube- Paying income tax in America is Voluntary

How is it voluntary to pay your taxes?What happens to you if you say no? Does the IRS just say okay you do not have not have to pay? Are they like the Salvation Army Bell Ringers outside of the stores around Christmas and you can choose to donate or not to donate? Voluntary means that there is no negative consequence if you choose not to do something or reward if you choose to do something.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/voluntary
4.
Law.
a.
acting or done without compulsion or obligation
 
Generally I am asking if the you (not you specifically but any poster) feels that believes taxes are theft whether or not they are legal (as in government making them legal).

A

Since I can't tell the federal government no without consequences to my financial well being then it is theft since the legality of it does not matter. Due to the this threat to my financial well being it could also be argued that the IRS and government engages in extortion/blackmail.
 
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I think it is mostly legal semantics much like killing and murder.Generally people view that taking someones property by force and with out permission to be an act of theft but legally speaking since it is legal for the government to take your money without permission and by force it is not legally theft.


The issue here of course, is that it is LEGAL, because the government (which makes all law, lol) SAYS it is legal.

In a sense that is like allowing a pickpocket to write the state's laws on petty theft, or setting the fox to guard the henhouse. :mrgreen:

I'd prefer that no tax could be levied, unless a caucus of all those who would be PAYING the tax vote in majority support of it. This would necessitate defining what the tax would go to pay for, of course; to get that approval the object of the revenue would have to be something a majority of the tax-payers thought was worthwhile.

BTW, I don't simply mean caucus of registered voters; I mean a caucus of whoever will actually be paying the new tax or tax hike. If the tax hike is on cigarettes, only cig smokers should be allowed to vote in the caucus. If the tax hike is on the wealthiest 10%, then only the wealthiest 10% should be allowed to vote on it.

That would be real, actual "taxation with representation."
 
"Other".

Depending on the circumstances and context surrounding each individual tax examined, they may or may not be "theft".

Property taxes, and some consequences for not paying/not being able to pay them, I consider more theft-like than most.


Concur. No person should ever lose their private residence or family farm due to a legitimate financial hardship preventing them from paying the tax on it.
 
Seeing as how the government defines legality, it would be hard for it to commit theft. However, one can judge the governments actions in taking the property of its citizens. Taxation is perfectly fine by me, as every half-way decent nation in the world needs it to function. When it comes to confiscating property in relation to drug crimes, I am not so supportive.
 
You forgot "other" in your poll.

If what the taxes are going to support is Constitutional, that is a legitimate tax.

If what the taxes are going to support is not Constitutional, that is theft.

About 2/3's of all Federal taxes are theft.
 
Taxes are of COURSE legal and necessary.

We SHOULD expect our legislators to spend those tax dollars wisely. If they dont we should replace them. That we dont cant be blamed on congress...that responsibility falls on the American people.
 
We SHOULD expect our legislators to spend those tax dollars wisely. If they dont we should replace them. That we dont cant be blamed on congress...that responsibility falls on the American people.

Yes...and no.

There are transparency issues (or lack thereof), complexity issues (witness a recent 2,700 page bill), and cases of incompetence or fraud where politicians promise "this bill will cost X and do Y" when in fact it will cost 3x and accomplish very little of what it claims.

Most people are too busy earning a living and raising a family to really dig into policy and the details of Congress' fiscal activities to be fully informed about what their Reps and Senators are up to, especially given the smoke-screen of the factors in the preceeding paragraph.

It is hard to hold a large, bewilderingly complex and deliberately opaque government properly to account. Our government loses billions of dollars (BILLIONS) and can't even explain to itself where the money went. :roll:

Contrariwise, the average voter doesn't pay a great deal of attention to politics until a few weeks before an election, and is then subjected to an information-overload of candidate and party propaganda... sorting the truth from the lies is a daunting task for most.

IMHO, the cure for this is to realize that we've given government, at all levels, far too much money and far too much power. We need to shrink it to a more manageable size.
 
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Yes...and no.

There are transparency issues (or lack thereof), complexity issues (witness a recent 2,700 page bill), and cases of incompetence or fraud where politicians promise "this bill will cost X and do Y" when in fact it will cost 3x and accomplish very little of what it claims.

Most people are too busy earning a living and raising a family to really dig into policy and the details of Congress' fiscal activities to be fully informed about what their Reps and Senators are up to, especially given the smoke-screen of the factors in the preceeding paragraph.

It is hard to hold a large, bewilderingly complex and deliberately opaque government properly to account. Our government loses billions of dollars (BILLIONS) and can't even explain to itself where the money went. :roll:

Contrariwise, the average voter doesn't pay a great deal of attention to politics until a few weeks before an election, and is then subjected to an information-overload of candidate and party propaganda... sorting the truth from the lies is a daunting task for most.

IMHO, the cure for this is to realize that we've given government, at all levels, far too much money and far too much power. We need to shrink it to a more manageable size.

Surely the old addage "fool me once, shame on you...fool me twice...shame on me" applies. Even with the hidden legislation and spending we didnt just suddenly fall into a 13.5 trillion dollar hole. The fact is we the people allow our self to get caught up in these ideological battles and completely ignore the fact that we are being spent into oblivion. Id LIKE to be able to just blame them...but honestly?
 
I'd prefer that no tax could be levied, unless a caucus of all those who would be PAYING the tax vote in majority support of it. This would necessitate defining what the tax would go to pay for, of course; to get that approval the object of the revenue would have to be something a majority of the tax-payers thought was worthwhile.

A public referendum on any new taxes sounds like an excellent idea as long as the budgets must stay balanced.
 
A public referendum on any new taxes sounds like an excellent idea as long as the budgets must stay balanced.


Agreed. Limiting the ability to tax won't prevent the government from wrecking the economy with deficit spending unless a balanced budget is required.

Funny how almost everyone agrees a balanced budget would be a good thing, but we still can't get it made into a law that actually holds water.
 
Agreed. Limiting the ability to tax won't prevent the government from wrecking the economy with deficit spending unless a balanced budget is required.

Funny how almost everyone agrees a balanced budget would be a good thing, but we still can't get it made into a law that actually holds water.

Of course we can't..... seems like all of these politicians talk a good story during the election, but can't seem to walk the talk after they get to Washington.... sounds like a good time for a grass roots amendment to the Constitution.
 
The issue here of course, is that it is LEGAL, because the government (which makes all law, lol) SAYS it is legal.

In a sense that is like allowing a pickpocket to write the state's laws on petty theft, or setting the fox to guard the henhouse. :mrgreen:

I'd prefer that no tax could be levied, unless a caucus of all those who would be PAYING the tax vote in majority support of it. This would necessitate defining what the tax would go to pay for, of course; to get that approval the object of the revenue would have to be something a majority of the tax-payers thought was worthwhile.

BTW, I don't simply mean caucus of registered voters; I mean a caucus of whoever will actually be paying the new tax or tax hike. If the tax hike is on cigarettes, only cig smokers should be allowed to vote in the caucus. If the tax hike is on the wealthiest 10%, then only the wealthiest 10% should be allowed to vote on it.


That would be real, actual "taxation with representation."

That is actually a good idea. It would make a nice poll subject. Tax increases shouldn't be passed just because a majority does not have to pay them. Although it is not hard to imagine the fear mongering the libs would do if such an issue ever popped up on a ballet.
 
Taxation without representation is theft. Taxation by duly elected Congress is not theft, no matter how much some people don't like it, don't like how the money is being spent, or disagree with the decisions that congress makes.

Don't like your government? You're their boss. Fire them.
 
Taxes for illegitimate and unconstitutional functions of government ARE theft.

About 80% or more of the federal government is illegitimate and/or unconstitutional.

At least 60% of state and local functions are illegitimate.

The bottom line is EVERYBODY is paying far too much tax and suffering far too much abuse.
 
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