View Poll Results: Are Taxes Theft

Voters
55. You may not vote on this poll
  • No Taxes are not theft

    37 67.27%
  • Yes Taxes are theft

    15 27.27%
  • Yes Taxes are theft and I receive a government paycheck or benifits

    3 5.45%
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Thread: Are Taxes Theft

  1. #11
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    Re: Are Taxes Theft

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
    I'm going with Dingy Harry Reid on this one.

    YouTube- Paying income tax in America is Voluntary
    How is it voluntary to pay your taxes?What happens to you if you say no? Does the IRS just say okay you do not have not have to pay? Are they like the Salvation Army Bell Ringers outside of the stores around Christmas and you can choose to donate or not to donate? Voluntary means that there is no negative consequence if you choose not to do something or reward if you choose to do something.

    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/voluntary
    4.
    Law.
    a.
    acting or done without compulsion or obligation
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  2. #12
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    Re: Are Taxes Theft

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Generally I am asking if the you (not you specifically but any poster) feels that believes taxes are theft whether or not they are legal (as in government making them legal).

    A
    Since I can't tell the federal government no without consequences to my financial well being then it is theft since the legality of it does not matter. Due to the this threat to my financial well being it could also be argued that the IRS and government engages in extortion/blackmail.
    Last edited by jamesrage; 03-23-10 at 11:49 AM.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  3. #13
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    Re: Are Taxes Theft

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    I think it is mostly legal semantics much like killing and murder.Generally people view that taking someones property by force and with out permission to be an act of theft but legally speaking since it is legal for the government to take your money without permission and by force it is not legally theft.

    The issue here of course, is that it is LEGAL, because the government (which makes all law, lol) SAYS it is legal.

    In a sense that is like allowing a pickpocket to write the state's laws on petty theft, or setting the fox to guard the henhouse.

    I'd prefer that no tax could be levied, unless a caucus of all those who would be PAYING the tax vote in majority support of it. This would necessitate defining what the tax would go to pay for, of course; to get that approval the object of the revenue would have to be something a majority of the tax-payers thought was worthwhile.

    BTW, I don't simply mean caucus of registered voters; I mean a caucus of whoever will actually be paying the new tax or tax hike. If the tax hike is on cigarettes, only cig smokers should be allowed to vote in the caucus. If the tax hike is on the wealthiest 10%, then only the wealthiest 10% should be allowed to vote on it.

    That would be real, actual "taxation with representation."

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
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  4. #14
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    Re: Are Taxes Theft

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    "Other".

    Depending on the circumstances and context surrounding each individual tax examined, they may or may not be "theft".

    Property taxes, and some consequences for not paying/not being able to pay them, I consider more theft-like than most.

    Concur. No person should ever lose their private residence or family farm due to a legitimate financial hardship preventing them from paying the tax on it.

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
    ISIS: Carthago Delenda Est
    "I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."

  5. #15
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    Re: Are Taxes Theft

    Seeing as how the government defines legality, it would be hard for it to commit theft. However, one can judge the governments actions in taking the property of its citizens. Taxation is perfectly fine by me, as every half-way decent nation in the world needs it to function. When it comes to confiscating property in relation to drug crimes, I am not so supportive.

  6. #16
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    Re: Are Taxes Theft

    You forgot "other" in your poll.

    If what the taxes are going to support is Constitutional, that is a legitimate tax.

    If what the taxes are going to support is not Constitutional, that is theft.

    About 2/3's of all Federal taxes are theft.
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    I didnt have to read the article to tell you that you cant read.

  7. #17
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    Re: Are Taxes Theft

    Taxes are of COURSE legal and necessary.

    We SHOULD expect our legislators to spend those tax dollars wisely. If they dont we should replace them. That we dont cant be blamed on congress...that responsibility falls on the American people.

  8. #18
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    Re: Are Taxes Theft

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post

    We SHOULD expect our legislators to spend those tax dollars wisely. If they dont we should replace them. That we dont cant be blamed on congress...that responsibility falls on the American people.
    Yes...and no.

    There are transparency issues (or lack thereof), complexity issues (witness a recent 2,700 page bill), and cases of incompetence or fraud where politicians promise "this bill will cost X and do Y" when in fact it will cost 3x and accomplish very little of what it claims.

    Most people are too busy earning a living and raising a family to really dig into policy and the details of Congress' fiscal activities to be fully informed about what their Reps and Senators are up to, especially given the smoke-screen of the factors in the preceeding paragraph.

    It is hard to hold a large, bewilderingly complex and deliberately opaque government properly to account. Our government loses billions of dollars (BILLIONS) and can't even explain to itself where the money went.

    Contrariwise, the average voter doesn't pay a great deal of attention to politics until a few weeks before an election, and is then subjected to an information-overload of candidate and party propaganda... sorting the truth from the lies is a daunting task for most.

    IMHO, the cure for this is to realize that we've given government, at all levels, far too much money and far too much power. We need to shrink it to a more manageable size.
    Last edited by Goshin; 03-23-10 at 06:04 PM.

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
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    "I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."

  9. #19
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    Re: Are Taxes Theft

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Yes...and no.

    There are transparency issues (or lack thereof), complexity issues (witness a recent 2,700 page bill), and cases of incompetence or fraud where politicians promise "this bill will cost X and do Y" when in fact it will cost 3x and accomplish very little of what it claims.

    Most people are too busy earning a living and raising a family to really dig into policy and the details of Congress' fiscal activities to be fully informed about what their Reps and Senators are up to, especially given the smoke-screen of the factors in the preceeding paragraph.

    It is hard to hold a large, bewilderingly complex and deliberately opaque government properly to account. Our government loses billions of dollars (BILLIONS) and can't even explain to itself where the money went.

    Contrariwise, the average voter doesn't pay a great deal of attention to politics until a few weeks before an election, and is then subjected to an information-overload of candidate and party propaganda... sorting the truth from the lies is a daunting task for most.

    IMHO, the cure for this is to realize that we've given government, at all levels, far too much money and far too much power. We need to shrink it to a more manageable size.
    Surely the old addage "fool me once, shame on you...fool me twice...shame on me" applies. Even with the hidden legislation and spending we didnt just suddenly fall into a 13.5 trillion dollar hole. The fact is we the people allow our self to get caught up in these ideological battles and completely ignore the fact that we are being spent into oblivion. Id LIKE to be able to just blame them...but honestly?

  10. #20
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    Re: Are Taxes Theft

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    I'd prefer that no tax could be levied, unless a caucus of all those who would be PAYING the tax vote in majority support of it. This would necessitate defining what the tax would go to pay for, of course; to get that approval the object of the revenue would have to be something a majority of the tax-payers thought was worthwhile.
    A public referendum on any new taxes sounds like an excellent idea as long as the budgets must stay balanced.

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