View Poll Results: Would you support a 'rape exception' to a government ban on elective abortions?

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  • No - Not under any circumstances ever

    5 10.87%
  • No - Not under the circumstances given (please explain)

    4 8.70%
  • Yes - If the law required the rape to be reported immediately

    11 23.91%
  • Yes - As long as the rape is reported in a timely manner

    14 30.43%
  • Other

    12 26.09%
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Thread: Would you support a 'rape exception' to a government ban on elective abortions?

  1. #141
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    Re: Would you support a 'rape exception' to a government ban on elective abortions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    Wrong. A child protective services investigation is launched on a report basis. That means that if a child is endangered in the womb, we would likely follow our current protocols. In point of fact, a child protective investigation operates with a "guilty until proven innocent" premise because the responsibility to the child is primary. That's where this would go, if we took the theoretical premise you've endorsed into the real world. The fetus would be incapable of testifying and thus, we would rely on outside reports of harm.
    And a child is usually removed from the environment it is in to ensure its safety. How could the child services monitor the safety of the foetus when it is trapped inside the women who has been deemed unfit? Clearly the woman would have to be moved to some sort of hospital-type setting so she could be monitored 24/7 o.O

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    In the context of the hypothetical, yes I would say those would definitely be outlawed.
    And judging US's record in relations to drugs, such a law would fail ultimately.


  2. #142
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    Re: Would you support a 'rape exception' to a government ban on elective abortions?

    Thank you for addressing one of the actual issues that would have to be different. You're right, they couldn't remove the children, instead they'd have to remove the mother. A hospital type situation would likely be the scenario that would have to happen, which is rather unfortunante, but so too is it unfortunate that children are taken out of their home and placed in completely alien environments to them as well. We're not going to find HAPPY thoughts or things that we have to do when it comes to abuse of children regardless of them being born or unborn.

  3. #143
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    Re: Would you support a 'rape exception' to a government ban on elective abortions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    And judging US's record in relations to drugs, such a law would fail ultimately.
    That would be the reality of the situation. I mean, it would have some effect. We don't have legalized pot, and sure a lot of people smoke it; but it does stop some percentage of people from doing it. However, it can't stop it in total. In the context of they hypothetical wherein these sorts of drugs would constitute a form of murder and are illegal, there would most likely be a black market which arises to supply the drugs.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  4. #144
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    Re: Would you support a 'rape exception' to a government ban on elective abortions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Thank you for addressing one of the actual issues that would have to be different. You're right, they couldn't remove the children, instead they'd have to remove the mother. A hospital type situation would likely be the scenario that would have to happen, which is rather unfortunante, but so too is it unfortunate that children are taken out of their home and placed in completely alien environments to them as well. We're not going to find HAPPY thoughts or things that we have to do when it comes to abuse of children regardless of them being born or unborn.
    Well it seemed pretty obvious, the bills for such a endeavour would be ridiculously high. And say a woman is a 'repeat offender', what happens then?
    And say during the last stages of pregnancy a problem occurs and (because this entire argument is on the premise a foetus is human and therefore open to protection) the Mother is in danger, who chooses which one survives? The doctor?
    Last edited by Laila; 03-23-10 at 12:55 PM.


  5. #145
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    Re: Would you support a 'rape exception' to a government ban on elective abortions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    No it's not. They've found something to live for, that something doesn't have to hinge upon better things coming. It may be hinged on family, it may be hinged on friends, it may be hinged on job, etc. Just because their life doesn't get better doesn't mean that they won't find worth in life. If what you said was true, there would be far more suicides than we have.
    If they found something to life for, than they are not in the position I described.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Society doesn't mean that a man is not entitled to the sweat of his brow. We interact, which is why we've come to understand rights and why we construct government to protect it. But that doesn't mean that you all of a sudden do not get to reap the rewards of your labor. Your labor is still your labor, even in a society. And you are entitled compensation for your labor and to live by it.
    I completely disagree. Those interactions may help or hinder a man independently of his actions. Or they may help or hinder a man in a manner that may be amplified because of other actions within society. But the fact is that society is not a machine that dispenses out a set amount of benefit for a set amount of work. What you get out of what you do can greatly vary because both the individual and the rest of society have mutual input. Because of that shared input, society has a right to some of the output.

  6. #146
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    Question Re: Would you support a 'rape exception' to a government ban on elective abortions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Politics101 View Post
    The poll should also include an 'exception' which allows abortion in medical cases where the mother's life is at risk.
    As that is a sperate though related matter,... we should go ahead and make that a poll question.

    Do you want to post it?

  7. #147
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    Re: Would you support a 'rape exception' to a government ban on elective abortions?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    If they found something to life for, than they are not in the position I described.
    I would say the only validation of your point you'd have is if the person commits suicide. And then it's validation only for that individual, not on the whole.

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    I completely disagree. Those interactions may help or hinder a man independently of his actions. Or they may help or hinder a man in a manner that may be amplified because of other actions within society. But the fact is that society is not a machine that dispenses out a set amount of benefit for a set amount of work. What you get out of what you do can greatly vary because both the individual and the rest of society have mutual input. Because of that shared input, society has a right to some of the output.
    There are things which can be accomplished through aggregation over a populace. Society can allow for specializations enough to allow all the people to contribute to pieces of the society and allow for greater advancement. Yet, none of this takes away from my labor or my right to live by my labor. You can't get my work for free...in fact my work specifically costs a lot of money. You cannot tell me legitimately that I am not entitled to the sweat of my brow because I live in a society. I may pay taxes, I may obey the law; but none of that takes away from my labor and my ability to get paid for it.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  8. #148
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    Re: Would you support a 'rape exception' to a government ban on elective abortions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I would say the only validation of your point you'd have is if the person commits suicide. And then it's validation only for that individual, not on the whole.
    I see your point in this. However this has nothing to do with unborn babies who are not yet fully alive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    There are things which can be accomplished through aggregation over a populace. Society can allow for specializations enough to allow all the people to contribute to pieces of the society and allow for greater advancement. Yet, none of this takes away from my labor or my right to live by my labor. You can't get my work for free...in fact my work specifically costs a lot of money. You cannot tell me legitimately that I am not entitled to the sweat of my brow because I live in a society. I may pay taxes, I may obey the law; but none of that takes away from my labor and my ability to get paid for it.
    I disagree, because it means that the results of your labor are not completely yours. My conclusion is that it is rightful for you to get paid for your labor and it is rightful for society to take a portion in the form of taxes as well. I think both are true. As for the exact amount that is rightful, I am not sure since modeling it is probably more complex than trying to track the weather.

  9. #149
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    Re: Would you support a 'rape exception' to a government ban on elective abortions?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    I see your point in this. However this has nothing to do with unborn babies who are not yet fully alive.
    It certainly does for the context of the hypothetical for this thread and is even more generalized elsewhere. Since one one of the given reasons for abortion was that the child's life will be less than perfect and thus is equivalent to death anyway.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  10. #150
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    Re: Would you support a 'rape exception' to a government ban on elective abortions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    It certainly does for the context of the hypothetical for this thread and is even more generalized elsewhere. Since one one of the given reasons for abortion was that the child's life will be less than perfect and thus is equivalent to death anyway.
    That's kinda scary.

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