View Poll Results: Would you support a 'rape exception' to a government ban on elective abortions?

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  • No - Not under any circumstances ever

    5 10.87%
  • No - Not under the circumstances given (please explain)

    4 8.70%
  • Yes - If the law required the rape to be reported immediately

    11 23.91%
  • Yes - As long as the rape is reported in a timely manner

    14 30.43%
  • Other

    12 26.09%
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Thread: Would you support a 'rape exception' to a government ban on elective abortions?

  1. #121
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    Re: Would you support a 'rape exception' to a government ban on elective abortions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    It's a very good question in fact. If we were to be in a place such as the hypothetical posed by the OP; how far would something like libertarian philosophy go in terms of pregnancy. The crux of many libertarian arguments is that if you are not directly infringing upon the rights of others, if you're not hurting others, then you should be free to do as you like. However, there are certainly actions which can be taken while pregnant, like smoking, drinking, drug abuse, which will cause that harm. And some of it isn't just a little hurt here or there, but major development issues. These acts would certainly infringe then upon the rights of the unborn child and perhaps some regulation would be necessary. Such as no smoking crack, no drinking excessive alcohol, etc. while pregnant.
    Absolutely. Women can do significant harm in utero through certain acts.

    So, abortion becomes illegal. Do we set up a government agency to monitor pregnant women?

    See, I'm thinking that allowing women to self-select abortion during the first trimester is the least intrusive option. A child is not fully developed at 12 weeks, no more so than a mouse. We only treat it differently because it has human genes. But, developmentally speaking, what is the difference between euthanizing an unwanted stray and terminating a fetus?

    There is very little difference, biologically/scientifically speaking. When I miscarried, I caught the fetus in my hand. It was the size of my thumb.

    Is that a human being?
    Last edited by Catz Part Deux; 03-23-10 at 12:19 PM.

  2. #122
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    Re: Would you support a 'rape exception' to a government ban on elective abortions?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    And if their hope for better things does not come to fruition that my position on it is validated.
    No it's not. They've found something to live for, that something doesn't have to hinge upon better things coming. It may be hinged on family, it may be hinged on friends, it may be hinged on job, etc. Just because their life doesn't get better doesn't mean that they won't find worth in life. If what you said was true, there would be far more suicides than we have.

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    I disagree with almost every assumption you make as the basis of that previous statement. Human nature by being in society necessarily interacts with that society, for better or worse. The results of those interactions are partially due to the person's actions and partially due to the actions of that society so I believe that each bears a responsibility due to those actions and their rewards. To limit yourself and only look at one aspect of life will lead you to conclusions that are one sided (such as the idea that a person is wholly responsible for their destiny). A person's sweat and effort is not entirely theirs unless they live alone and away from the rest of society.
    Society doesn't mean that a man is not entitled to the sweat of his brow. We interact, which is why we've come to understand rights and why we construct government to protect it. But that doesn't mean that you all of a sudden do not get to reap the rewards of your labor. Your labor is still your labor, even in a society. And you are entitled compensation for your labor and to live by it.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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  3. #123
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    Re: Would you support a 'rape exception' to a government ban on elective abortions?

    The poll should also include an 'exception' which allows abortion in medical cases where the mother's life is at risk.

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    Re: Would you support a 'rape exception' to a government ban on elective abortions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    So, abortion becomes illegal. Do we set up a government agency to monitor pregnant women?

    See, I'm thinking that allowing women to self-select abortion during the first trimester is the least intrusive option. A child is not fully developed at 12 weeks, no more so than a mouse. We only treat it differently because it has human genes. But, developmentally speaking, what is the difference between euthanizing an unwanted stray and terminating a fetus?

    There is very little difference, biologically/scientifically speaking. When I miscarried, I caught the fetus in my hand. It was the size of my thumb.

    Is that a human being?
    I don't think monitoring is necessary, less there is real reason to believe that the woman may act in manners which would endanger the child and that can be proven in a court of law in order to obtain a warrant.

    But of course it's a human being. Human is human.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Would you support a 'rape exception' to a government ban on elective abortions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Politics101 View Post
    The poll should also include an 'exception' which allows abortion in medical cases where the mother's life is at risk.
    This isn't the inclusive abortion debate. This was a specific scenario and hypothetical consideration. What you're saying here isn't part of the consideration.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Would you support a 'rape exception' to a government ban on elective abortions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I don't think monitoring is necessary, less there is real reason to believe that the woman may act in manners which would endanger the child and that can be proven in a court of law in order to obtain a warrant.

    But of course it's a human being. Human is human.
    How would you know which women are likely to do this? Should the role of child protective services be expanded to monitor pregnant women?

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    Re: Would you support a 'rape exception' to a government ban on elective abortions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    How would you know which women are likely to do this? Should the role of child protective services be expanded to monitor pregnant women?
    Less there is some criminal record which would be related (DUI, drug arrest, etc.) you wouldn't know.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Would you support a 'rape exception' to a government ban on elective abortions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Less there is some criminal record which would be related (DUI, drug arrest, etc.) you wouldn't know.
    So, how far are you willing to go to protect the rights of the unborn?

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    Re: Would you support a 'rape exception' to a government ban on elective abortions?

    Sorry, should've read first.

    Under the scenario given where personhood is 100% legally established then I would say the only time an exception should be made is legitimate threat to the mothers life.

    I voted immedietely (within days) in a general sense of if abortion was simply made illegal, based on the understanding that there is no definitive, scientific, way in any way shape or form to delcare one particular moment the beginning of life because that declaration is completley opinion, so if it was made illegal I would be in favor of of the rape exclusion if reported within a few days based on the nebulous definition of "life" and the rape tilting it in the favor of the mother.

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    Re: Would you support a 'rape exception' to a government ban on elective abortions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    So, how far are you willing to go to protect the rights of the unborn?
    I imagine not that much farther then he'd be willing to go to protect the rights of the born. I would imagine that Ikari isn't big into Child Services based on him being a rather staunch libertarian but I may be wrong. That said, if you really wanted to do monitoring of some kind, I would imagine it'd follow much the same path that Child Services does now with it falling on them to do it. Essentially direct monitoring isn't done, but if there's reports of abuse they would check it out and investigate the situation.

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