View Poll Results: Would you support a 'rape exception' to a government ban on elective abortions?

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  • No - Not under any circumstances ever

    5 10.87%
  • No - Not under the circumstances given (please explain)

    4 8.70%
  • Yes - If the law required the rape to be reported immediately

    11 23.91%
  • Yes - As long as the rape is reported in a timely manner

    14 30.43%
  • Other

    12 26.09%
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Thread: Would you support a 'rape exception' to a government ban on elective abortions?

  1. #111
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    Re: Would you support a 'rape exception' to a government ban on elective abortions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    So, how far are you willing to allow the government to go to force a pregnant woman to carry her pregnancy to term without endangering the fetus?

    As a libertarian, I would imagine...not very far.
    As a libertarian, I believe heavily in fundamental and natural rights. As such the unborn child's right to life must be considered as well.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  2. #112
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    Re: Would you support a 'rape exception' to a government ban on elective abortions?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Honestly, I don't understand your position at all and all I can say is that those people have found something to life for. When I was in that position, I know I had to.
    Exactly. You're sitting here deeming people's lives no better than death. Yet these people find things to live for. They keep going and keep trying. So obviously a hard life is not equivalent to death as you keep trying to impost.

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    To me this is an immoral position.

    As a side note: I was subjected to some pretty awful stuff growing up and I find myself continually flashing on those memories as I post. Perhaps this is linked to my position on this question and is the course of of my particular outlook. I am not sure.
    It's not an immoral position. An immoral position is deeming a man's life no better than death and excusing his execution. It's not immoral to have one work and reap the benefits and rewards of their sweat. And to request that they don't steal from me to make their lives better when things don't work out well enough.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  3. #113
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    Re: Would you support a 'rape exception' to a government ban on elective abortions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuz Life View Post
    Expecting her to respect it's rights is not tantamount to forcing her to do anything.

    When (and if) she consented to have intercourse, she placed the burden on herself (as did the father.)
    Wrong. YOu're forcing her to commit to 9 months of pregnancy and giving birth. If you're willing to do that, what else are you willing to force her to do? Are you going to control her diet to ensure the child is healthy? Are you going to force feed her? Are you going to monitor her alcohol intake? Are you going to test her urine for illegal drugs? If that child has rights equivalent to the mother's, does the child have the right to not be mistreated in the womb?

    That is the natural extension of your argument, and I'm not sure exactly how you plan to enforce it.

  4. #114
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    Re: Would you support a 'rape exception' to a government ban on elective abortions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    As a libertarian, I believe heavily in fundamental and natural rights. As such the unborn child's right to life must be considered as well.
    So, how far are you willing to extend that child's natural rights?

  5. #115
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    Re: Would you support a 'rape exception' to a government ban on elective abortions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    So, how far are you willing to extend that child's natural rights?
    I'm not extending any natural rights, I'm merely recognizing them. This is a natural consequence of recognizing human life and natural rights.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  6. #116
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    Re: Would you support a 'rape exception' to a government ban on elective abortions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I'm not extending any natural rights, I'm merely recognizing them. This is a natural consequence of recognizing human life and natural rights.
    So, by recognizing them, are you willing to enter into policing the woman's pregnancy to ensure that her actions do not endanger the fetus?

  7. #117
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    Re: Would you support a 'rape exception' to a government ban on elective abortions?

    When (and if) she consented to have intercourse, she placed the burden on herself (as did the father.)
    But she can withdraw her consent to be pregnant at any time. Forcing her to remain pregnant against her will is not consent.

    I find it interesting that your statement above closely parallels the rapists’ argument that “she wanted it” or “if she didn’t want to have sex she shouldn’t have come into my room and made out with me.”

    How is forcing a woman to remain pregnant against her will much different from raping her?

  8. #118
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    Re: Would you support a 'rape exception' to a government ban on elective abortions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Exactly. You're sitting here deeming people's lives no better than death. Yet these people find things to live for. They keep going and keep trying. So obviously a hard life is not equivalent to death as you keep trying to impost.
    And if their hope for better things does not come to fruition that my position on it is validated.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    It's not an immoral position. An immoral position is deeming a man's life no better than death and excusing his execution. It's not immoral to have one work and reap the benefits and rewards of their sweat. And to request that they don't steal from me to make their lives better when things don't work out well enough.
    I disagree with almost every assumption you make as the basis of that previous statement. Human nature by being in society necessarily interacts with that society, for better or worse. The results of those interactions are partially due to the person's actions and partially due to the actions of that society so I believe that each bears a responsibility due to those actions and their rewards. To limit yourself and only look at one aspect of life will lead you to conclusions that are one sided (such as the idea that a person is wholly responsible for their destiny). A person's sweat and effort is not entirely theirs unless they live alone and away from the rest of society.
    Last edited by tacomancer; 03-23-10 at 12:13 PM.

  9. #119
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    Re: Would you support a 'rape exception' to a government ban on elective abortions?

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    How is forcing a woman to remain pregnant against her will much different from raping her?
    She wanted it.

    Basically, it is using her body against her will.

    Look, I get it. Abortion is bad. I could not do it, when faced with the choice. But, if a woman would rather kill her fetus rather than bring it into the world, how far are you willing to go to force her to do what you want her to do?

  10. #120
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    Re: Would you support a 'rape exception' to a government ban on elective abortions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    So, by recognizing them, are you willing to enter into policing the woman's pregnancy to ensure that her actions do not endanger the fetus?
    It's a very good question in fact. If we were to be in a place such as the hypothetical posed by the OP; how far would something like libertarian philosophy go in terms of pregnancy. The crux of many libertarian arguments is that if you are not directly infringing upon the rights of others, if you're not hurting others, then you should be free to do as you like. However, there are certainly actions which can be taken while pregnant, like smoking, drinking, drug abuse, which will cause that harm. And some of it isn't just a little hurt here or there, but major development issues. These acts would certainly infringe then upon the rights of the unborn child and perhaps some regulation would be necessary. Such as no smoking crack, no drinking excessive alcohol, etc. while pregnant.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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